Hon Patrick Gorman MP on ABC Afternoon Briefing 17 February

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Patrick Gorman is the Assistant Employment Minister. Garth Hamilton is the LNP MP for Groom in Queensland. Welcome to both of you.

GARTH HAMILTON, MEMBER FOR GROOM: Thank you.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good to be here.

KARVELAS: I want to start, actually, on the ideas that have been floated in relation to immigration. I know, Garth, you've got strong views on immigration. What do you make of this idea of banning countries and regions, actually making a list? I've been told by others that it wouldn't work. What do you think?

HAMILTON: I'll give you a personal reflection. I've lived under Sharia law in my time in Saudi Arabia and I can tell you there are some practices there that are completely incompatible with Australian life. I drove down pretty close to the border with Yemen, seeing people still involved in trouble, violence at a very confronting level. This is just not compatible with the way we live in Australia. And I think there are some times we're going to have to have these hard conversations. And I will point out, Julia Gillard did set the precedent for this with Sri Lanka back in 2010, when she listened to the concerns they had about migration from that country, at that time.

KARVELAS: Sharia law in Australia. We're a liberal democracy, so what's the problem with people coming from those places? I mean, some of the times they're coming because they don't want to be part of that, right?

HAMILTON: Absolutely. And the vast majority of people who come to Australia, absolutely love Australia and come here and contribute. But it would be incorrect to say that that's everybody. And there are some places where we clearly see extremist views being spread quite liberally around the populace, particularly in countries that are controlled by those extreme terror organisations. And we'll have people coming out of war zones, unfortunately, confronted with a horrible way of life and some horrible thoughts in their head. That simply isn't compatible with Australia. And whilst I have my deeper sympathies for them, our first objective is to look after Australia and Australians.

KARVELAS: Patrick, it seems to me like the Coalition is very much looking at this policy. I mean, you heard Garth Hamilton's views there. What do you think?

GORMAN: I am still a bit confused as to whether this was just a leak to continue the ongoing civil war within the Liberal Party, or this policy has not been announced because it is too extreme, or it is not extreme enough -

KARVELAS: Well, I think there's a new leader, that's why we don't know if it's a final policy. But either way, to the substance of creating a list and some of the points Garth Hamilton made, what do you think?

GORMAN: I am happy to engage in a policy debate once the Liberal Party decides what their policy is. Our policy is to use the improvements that we have made to the visa system. The improvements we have made to Home Affairs, remembering that it was in quite a mess when we came to government. We have done a large amount of work to tidy up that department, and that is how we make sure that every person who comes to Australia on whatever visa they come here on, is here to serve Australia's interests. Whether that be our economic, or our social, or our education interests. That is how we run our migration system in an orderly way. And again, I do not really know where to go with this policy because it is very unclear whether this is the policy the Liberal Party wants out or they are putting it out simply to do internal damage to one another.

KARVELAS: Yes, I mean, that's another debate. I think it's the substance, like, do you think it's a good policy or not? It sounds like you don't think it's a good policy.

GORMAN: Well, it is very hard to engage in the detail when - if the Liberal Party's got all the details, then put it out there and let us have the discussion. They are not doing that, so it is pretty hard to engage on right now.

KARVELAS: Garth, there's also been a floating of a return to nuclear. Obviously that's very divisive in the community, as we know from the last election. Do you want to see nuclear remain a centrepiece of your policy?

HAMILTON: See, I think it could play a part. I think that's important to have all the options on the table if you want to get the best answer. Works in every other area of economics. I don't know why we'd pretend it's not going to work in energy. But it's a very simple process. If Labor is right, if it is too expensive, then companies won't invest in it. And it won't come forward. I think that's a very simple statement. I don't know what they're afraid of. It's used all around the world. A lot of people enjoy the cheaper energy in other countries that we don't get to enjoy. And they're using uranium coming from Australia.

KARVELAS: So, you just believe it should just be, take the moratorium off and that's it. No subsidies though, for nuclear.

HAMILTON: That's my position. I think it's a very sensible one. Take the moratorium away, let the market be the judge.

KARVELAS: How about that idea, Patrick? Just letting the market judge?

GORMAN: I think the time for this debate has come and gone. The reality is that the cheapest energy we can get into the grids of Australia is renewable energy. Of course, I am a realist. Australia plays a role in the supply chain of uranium to other nations. We have done that for many decades. But when it comes to what we need in Australia, we need more affordable energy right now. Even on the plan that was costed by Angus Taylor less than a year ago, their nuclear plan, that would not have seen nuclear power plants open until the 2040s. It would have seen some $600 billion of debt added to the nation's books. I don't think anyone can credibly argue that is the fastest and most effective way to get more energy to industry in Australia right now.

KARVELAS: Okay, I want to move the topic to one little sneaky question to Garth Hamilton. Garth, are you waiting for a call from your new leader to perhaps be elevated into the frontbench?

HAMILTON: Anyone who tells you they are not, is lying to you, Patricia. Of course, everyone wants the opportunity to contribute at the highest level of their capacity. But these are decisions for the leader to make. I'm not going to put any further pressure on him. He's got a tough job as it is.

KARVELAS: Yeah, ok, fair enough. Let's talk about the Farrer by-election and for people watching who think, what's this woman talking about? I'll explain. Sussan Ley, who was just Liberal leader on Friday, resigned. She wants to actually leave the whole parliament, which means there's going to be an election in her seat of Farrer. It seems now, Garth, that the Nationals are running. Are you disappointed? It is going to be much harder, isn't it now?

HAMILTON: Oh, look, this is long standing tradition between the two parties. When there is a changeover in one of these seats, that both get to run for it. Of course it makes it harder. That's not something I can possibly deny, but that's the reality we face and that's part of being in a Coalition. That's part of the agreement we have for a long, long time. Ultimately, I do agree with David Littleproud. We want a Coalition member to take that seat and continue on. Hopefully from my side, it's a Liberal. I think they should resolve their issues and do what they do in Queensland and become the LNP, makes things a lot easier.

KARVELAS: Okay. I don't know if they're going to take up your offer, but, you know, good to contribute. Let me ask you one more question, if I can, Gareth Hamilton. If One Nation wins the seat of Farrer, will that be a sort of repudiation of Angus Taylor as the new leader?

HAMILTON: I'm sure there'll be people who would like to speak to his detriment, who will make it so. Without giving way too many spoilers of our conversation tonight, I think there's long issues that we have to deal with in the party and I think Angus is well on the way to dealing with some of those already. Issues on immigration, on energy, on the shape of the economy, family tax, all these sorts of things that we need to get on top of. I think it would be a very unkind and unfair assessment to point this at Angus.

KARVELAS: Okay, this is going to be, Patrick - I mean, Labor is not going to run is my understanding, but it is actually something Labor's watching closely and I want you to put a political hat on - which I think you've always got on anyway, let's be honest, Patrick. But a political hat on, because we are seeing a realignment of the right and, yes, my Four Corners that Garth's in will look at that issue tonight. But this is a really important by-election, isn't it? To sort of see how that One Nation support, the Independent that's running, how it might play out. It is significant in that sense, isn't it, Patrick?

GORMAN: Firstly, decisions on which elections the Labor Party contests are matters for the party organisation and far be it from me to tell the NSW branch of the Labor Party what to do in a situation like this. If I could point out though, at the last federal election, I was also the campaign director in the seat of Bullwinkel, where we did have the Liberal Party and the National Party fighting it out amongst each other. I do not think that helps them that much. And I do not think there is a Liberal or a National member for Bullwinkel in the Parliament today. And I do think that of course this result is incredibly important for Angus Taylor. Obviously, if the first thing that you do as leader is reduce the number of seats that you have, that reflects on you. But what I also notice is that Australians thought we have had just enough of the Liberal-National fight we've been enduring on excellent programs like yours, Patricia, over the last few weeks. I think people thought it was over. And what this announcement tells us is that that fight is still well and truly underway within the Coalition. And then you have other parts of the Coalition who are saying, 'well, let us welcome One Nation into the Coalition'. Alex Antic, Senator for South Australia, has made it very clear that he is open to having One Nation as part of a formal Coalition with the Liberal Party and the National Party. They are fighting it out and trying to cosy up to each other all at once. It is pretty confusing.

KARVELAS: Okay, Garth Hamilton, final word to you on One Nation forming a Coalition potentially with your political party. Is that something you'd be open to?

HAMILTON: Certainly not something I'm looking at. I think we've got a good enough room together with us and the Nats working together. I think that's a good enough Coalition as it is.

KARVELAS: Okay, all right. Not looking for One Nation to be a partner. Let's see how that goes. We don't know. Polling is just polling. We'll wait until real people vote. Thank you to both of you.