Gorman MP Interviewed on ABC Afternoon Briefing

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I want to bring in my political panel for today. Patrick Gorman is the Assistant Employment Minister. Garth Hamilton is the Shadow Assistant Minister for Energy Security. Welcome to both of you. We have to start, I think, where we just ended there. And that is in relation to the language that's being used - "suck it up sweetheart," is what Pauline Hanson has said to Jacinta Allan. I'll start with you, Garth Hamilton, do you think she should just 'suck it up'?

GARTH HAMILTON, LIBERAL MEMBER FOR GROOM: I'm not here to justify or talk to someone else's language. I don't think it's the appropriate language that should have been used. I certainly wouldn't use it. I enjoy good relationships across the Parliament, even with those I fight hardest with, including my friend Pat.

KARVELAS: Okay, but do you think it's sexist?

HAMILTON: I'm a guy who's never had that used against me, so I don't know what it feels like. It probably does. So, yes. But it simply shouldn't be used. That's it, move on. Why be personal? Why not want to deal with issues of policy and try to come to a position of consensus, even if that requires some strong battling. But the personal stuff, I think, goes too far.

KARVELAS: Yeah, okay. Well, the fact that it hasn't been used for you, I suppose, is telling. You know, it's not really a word I've heard used before, Patrick, for men. Unless I've missed it. Don't know if Patrick is audible to us. Something wrong with the audio today. Hopefully, I'll have some clarity in a moment with all of the audio. We are talking, of course, about federal politics. Newspoll was out today, too. Newspoll, of course, published in the Australian newspaper, showing One Nation ahead of even Labor. We'll get to - I'll give him a go and see if I can still hear Patrick Gorman. Patrick, I was asking you about the 'ditch the witch' billboards and, you know, whether it was appropriate or whether it's sexist. Pauline Hanson thinks she should 'suck it up, sweetheart'.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: I have never been described as a 'witch' in any of the four election campaigns I've contested. It does appear to be misogynistic. More importantly than that, it's just not the appropriate way to get your policy points across. I think we all have a responsibility in our campaigning to try and lift the standard, to try and make sure we make our points and argue as passionately as possible. And as Senator Hanson said, you do have to have a thick skin to contest elections, and I think the Victorian Premier has a very thick skin. But it doesn't mean that we have to accept things that are not in line with community standards. And this clearly is unacceptable campaigning. It is unnecessary campaigning. And I hope we see less of this in the future, not more.

KARVELAS: Today the Newspoll is out. It backs up the same story we saw in the Redbridge poll, which is that One Nation is ahead of both of your, what were once, you know, the two major political parties in this country. Garth Hamilton, you've been taking on One Nation head-on in lots of your language and trying to sort of put some scrutiny on them. But despite a couple of weeks of that scrutiny, they're actually now even beating the governing party. What does that say?

HAMILTON: Well, I think it frames the next election very clearly as one where the Australian people want to see change. They want to see that both in direction of this country and in the direction of the various parties. That couldn't be clearer. We've got a lot of work to do, but I think we're a long way out from the election. As I've been saying for a long time now, this is a very strong populist movement. It's not yet to the levels that Nick Xenophon got to in South Australia, he got up to 35%. So, he got a bit higher and still failed when the election time came. I think that election question is a very different one to the question that people are answering at the moment, which is, I think, are you angry? And if you're angry, yes, the answer is One Nation.

KARVELAS: So, if people are angry, then, Patrick Gorman, your political party is actually in charge of the joint. You're in the Labor Party. Labor is actually in power, and this once small political party of the right is now beating a mainstream party like Labor. That must be freaking you out?

GORMAN: I am as relaxed and unbothered by the polls at this point in the political cycle as I was in the previous points in the political cycle where I remember people had written off Labor and written off all sorts of things before the 2025 Election. I do accept that as the Government of Australia, we have responsibility to deal with the really serious challenges Australia faces. Some of those are driven by conflict abroad. Some of them are driven by problems that weren't addressed by previous governments. I mean, we've been talking a lot about housing and for decades we haven't been doing enough to make sure that people get into their first homes. We are taking serious responsibility for making hard calls to get Australia into the position we need to be to have the resilient economy we need for the future. And if that means that we go through people, sort of looking at their political options, I accept that as part of a democracy. But I'll also accept that we have to do what is right for the country and that means making the hard calls, not just the populist calls.

KARVELAS: Okay, so does that mean you think you're going to turn it around?

GORMAN: Genuinely, I am very happy to be focused on doing the work that we need to do to set Australia up for the future. I am here in Newcastle at the moment doing some work on reforming our employment system to help those who have been unemployed for years and years - some decade - into the job market. That is serious work that I'm pleased to be doing and it's the sort of thing that you'd expect of a mature government. That is what we'll continue to do. If we run around being distracted by polls - I mean, you've got one out every couple of days now. If we run around chasing polls or chasing a point here or there, rather than doing the job of governing, then we'd be letting the Australian people down and I won't do that.

KARVELAS: So, Pauline Hanson is still beating the major parties in two polls now, and there might be more in the future, we'll see. Garth Hamilton, she's also spoken at a - it seemed like a quite a smallish rally, if you want to call it that - to support Ben Roberts-Smith. I'd love to hear your reflections on that because Pauline Hanson's been very critical. So, has the Hanson movement, the PHON movement, about your colleague Andrew Hastie's role in all of that. They've taken a very strong position supporting Ben Roberts-Smith, who faces, of course, a criminal trial. How do you reflect on how to manage that, given right wing voters are clearly motivated by this issue?

HAMILTON: Well, I'd start by saying if Andrew Hastie is the villain of your story, you live in a pretty warped world. One of the most decent, committed and earnest people that I've had the fortune to know and to work with, and I'm a good friend of his. With regard to Ben Roberts-Smith, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion. I would point out, though, as a political party that wants to be called a conservative movement, there's a certain respect for the institutions that should come into play. Both the Police and Judiciary. And I would think it would be a risk for any political party to blur the lines between Judiciary and a party that seeks to be or to hold executive powers. I think that's an important part of conservatism, is understanding the value of our institutions and giving them the ability to do their job without influencing them. And I've got to say, some of the stuff that I've seen thrown at Mr. Hastie could be - could well rise to the level of intimidation should he be called before a court again.

KARVELAS: Right, that's a big call. You think he's being intimidated by people who are commenting on these issues, publicly?

HAMILTON: I think there's a very strong campaign that's going on out there, and I'd be very concerned if it did rise to that level, because this is an important case and it's important for Australia to look after these issues responsibly and to trust the institutions that we've built over time. That have been part of what have made Australia great. We should be trusting those institutions.

KARVELAS: I'd love to hear your thoughts on that too, if I can, Patrick, because there are people who are concerned about how Ben Roberts-Smith has been treated. Clearly, they're motivated by this issue politically, and One Nation's got behind it.

GORMAN: Yeah, well, I think to respect those institutions that Garth just spoke about, I'm not going to comment on a case before the courts, as simple as that.

KARVELAS: Okay, but yet, One Nation is gaining traction raising this, perhaps? I mean, we can't be sure, can I say, because I'm into - in the interests of absolute accuracy, we can't be sure that's why they're raising, you know, rising in the polls. There's no evidence of that at all. But they are campaigning on this issue. Does that concern you?

GORMAN: I will leave them to do what they choose to do within their internals of their political party. I am not going to comment on a matter that's before the courts. Simple as that.

KARVELAS: It's not internals, though, Garth, it's externals. They're doing this externally. They're campaigning on this, and they're a political movement. Is that appropriate?

HAMILTON: [INAUDIBLE] judicious man. What I would say is I think there is always a risk at blurring those lines. And for any political party that wants to go from being a protest movement to one that can show its demonstration of ability to govern, there's a level of responsibility that you have to demonstrate. I'm not sure they're doing that in this case. That doesn't take away from anything to do with the case, nor make judgement whatsoever or comment. It's simply saying that there is a clear [INAUDIBLE] between executive and judiciary that must be kept if we're going to maintain a country that isn't just chaos.

KARVELAS: Just finally, it seems that there is an escalation in the Middle East war and we're seeing retaliatory action now from Israel after Iran's action. This was obviously - we all hope this would be a short campaign. It's certainly not. It's enduring. Patrick, that's going to have huge ramifications, isn't it, for Australia? I mean, what are your thoughts on the fact that this is now looks like it's firing up?

GORMAN: It is deeply concerning and of course, the coverage we've seen over the course of today would be concerning for all Australians, whether they look at it from those who have deep family connections in the region through to those who know the serious real-world impacts we're feeling here at home when it comes to the economy. It is why our government, for months and months has been calling for de-escalation. Our actions have been focused on doing what we can to urge a return to diplomacy, because what we know is these conflicts is that they are having huge and seriously negative effects across the globe. And we'd really like to see an end to these conflicts because no one is winning right now. No one.

KARVELAS: Garth Hamilton, I'll give you the final word on that.

HAMILTON: A ceasefire, where no one has ceased to fire. Look, a war can be both just and poorly planned. I think this is a poorly planned war. We don't know what the exit strategy is. I don't know the Iranian people are better off. I don't know that their nuclear capabilities are reduced. And it looks like the Straits of Hormuz might be opened as a result of this war, which is the case before it started. My criticisms of it remain.

KARVELAS: Well, it was a good conversation with both of you. Thank you so much for joining me on this public holiday for so many.