Subjects: Royal Commission on Antisemitism and Social Cohesion
BARBARA MILLER, HOST: As you've heard, the Prime Minister launched a Commonwealth Royal Commission into the Bondi terror attack yesterday, bowing to mounting pressure from the opposition, victims and community groups. Anthony Albanese said he'd respected and listened to community views, saying the federal probe would broadly examine antisemitism and social cohesion. Michelle Rowland is the Attorney-General - welcome back to breakfast.
MICHELLE ROWLAND, ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Good morning.
MILLER: Michelle Rowland, Anthony Albanese said he'd been listening to community views. They were very clear from the outset that a Royal Commission was what they wanted. In retrospect, was the government not listening carefully enough?
ROWLAND: Well, I think the first point to make is, as the Prime Minister has said, is that we have taken time to get this right and the Prime Minister and the Government have listened to people, particularly the Australian Jewish community, and that listening has not been about politics, it's about getting the right outcome for our national unity and our national security. As the Prime Minister said, as he has spent the past 26 days or so listening to people, it is impossible not to be impacted and listening to people privately in their lounge rooms, it's very clear that the voices of those who have impacted want to be heard and this is the right outcome to achieve that.
MILLER: Do you think an apology is warranted, that he didn't initially see the need for this?
ROWLAND: Look, I think the Prime Minister's also made it clear that there are obviously a lot of views in the community about this. He has been listening to all of them and he has been also very self aware on many occasions to say that when people don't always get things right, it's important to listen and it's important to move forward. The reason to move forward here is because of the importance of national security and social cohesion. This is an opportunity not only for voices to be heard in the form of a Royal Commission, but also to take recommendations forward and to continue the important work that the Government has been doing in the last four weeks or so to ensure that our response to this prioritises national security and social cohesion in the long term.
MILLER: The Home Affairs Minister had expressed concern that a Royal Commission would platform hate against Jewish Australians. Is that still a concern?
ROWLAND: Well, it remains a concern, not only in the broader community, but also in the context of ensuring that we have a Royal Commission that is effective, that has recommendations that are capable of implementation and actually makes improvements in the long term. That is also recognised in the preamble itself in the Letters Patent that points to the necessity for the inquiry to not prejudice criminal proceedings, national security or undermine social cohesion. So, that is a very clear message to the Royal Commission and the Royal Commissioner will receive this as part of the Letters Patent to make sure that whatever is done in this Royal Commission, she is acting independently in an impartial way, but also having regard to that very important need to ensure that not only are voices heard, but that social cohesion is maintained and promoted.
MILLER: The federal opposition has been lobbying hard for a Royal Commission. The leader, Sussan Ley, told AM that one of the tests we set was that Ministers effectively be in the dock, asked questions and called to account. Is that how you see what's going to happen?
ROWLAND: Well, the Royal Commission will conduct itself independently and the Royal Commissioner, I have every confidence, will bring her vast expertise in these matters and ensure that this is done in a way that not only fulfils the terms of reference, but also does so in a way that gives the public confidence and ensures that this is not only a forum in which voices are heard, but that implementation and long term change is promoted. I think that those comments that you just referenced are simply endemic of an opposition that is simply playing politics with this issue. I think it is fair to say for your listeners who have been aware of this government's decision since yesterday that this is an important point in moving Australia forward with unity. It is not a time for partisan politics. It never has been. That is something the Prime Minister has been very clear that he is not going to engage in. I also would caution those who would seek to try and direct how they think the Royal Commissioner should operate or how this should run, they should be very careful in how they make those comments, because this is not only the highest form of inquisitorial process that's in this country, but it's also one that is widely respected. Again, we understand why people have been calling for it, because it is just that.
MILLER: Are Ministers going to be in the dock?
ROWLAND: Well, again, this is a matter for the Royal Commissioner. Any way that she considers appropriate, and she will conduct her this Royal Commission independently, and of course, everyone is required to comply with those rules.
MILLER: You remain committed to a separate review of intelligence agencies. That's the one to be conducted or being conducted by the former ASIO boss, Dennis Richardson. Can you just explain how that report, whose deadline is April, will feed into the Royal Commission?
ROWLAND: Well, as agreed with the Commissioner, Dennis Richardson's work is going to become part of the Commission and he will support its work with the delivery of his interim report by the Commission in April.
MILLER: On Radio National Breakfast, I'm speaking with the Attorney-General, Michelle Rowland. As the nation's chief law officer, how confident are you that this inquiry, the federal Royal Commission, won't prejudice the trial of the accused surviving gunman?
ROWLAND: Well, I have confidence, particularly in relation to two aspects. Firstly, the terms of reference make it very clear that there is a necessity not to prejudice current or future criminal proceedings, and the Commissioner will be very mindful of that. But secondly, the confidence I have in here arises from the choice of Commissioner. Virginia Bell is one of the most distinguished legal minds that this country has ever produced. She served on the highest court of our land and she did so with impartiality and precision. She will bring that same quality in the work that she does. Having served on the Supreme Court and the Court of Appeal, her criminal law expertise will be vital in ensuring that this is undertaken in the most appropriate way.
MILLER: Do you need to, because of that trial, impending trial, and because of national security concerns, do you need to prepare the Australian public that significant parts of the evidence that the Royal Commission hears may be suppressed?
ROWLAND: I think that is premature to say at this stage. The Royal Commissioner will make decisions in that regard.
MILLER: In New Zealand, large parts of evidence were suppressed after their Royal commission into the Christchurch attack. It's surely a very likely outcome.
ROWLAND: Well, again, I won't engage in hypotheticals here. I think at this time it is important for the government to do its work, and in particular the Attorney-General's department, in ensuring that this Royal Commission is stood up as expeditiously as possible should be the focus.
MILLER: On 7:30 last night, the Prime Minister suggested that discussions about the terms of reference for this Commissioner had been going on for some time. Can you confirm that and how long?
ROWLAND: Well, indeed, as the Prime Minister has indicated, we gave our support to NSW around three weeks ago when they announced that they would be conducting a Royal Commission. So, obviously we turned our minds as a government to what those terms of reference would be in terms of assisting NSW in that regard. So, certainly this has been an area that we have been focused on for some time. As the Prime Minister has, exactly as he said, reached his view that this Royal Commission is the right format, the right duration, and has the right terms of reference to deliver the right outcome for our national unity, our national security. We're able to draw on as a government those thinkings that we have had in that time.
MILLER: But is it the case that the Federal Government has been actively considering for several weeks establishing a federal Royal Commission?
ROWLAND: Well, I'm not sure what you're impugning here, but certainly we have been…
MILLER: I'm reacting to the comments made by the Prime Minister to 7:30.
ROWLAND: Well, again, the Prime Minister made it clear that he has been listening to the community and particularly to the voices of those who have been impacted. So, all of that has gone into the decision that we have announced as a government yesterday.
MILLER: When reports began to filter out that Virginia Bell might be the Commissioner, there was some criticism of her. The former Treasurer initially called her appointment unthinkable. What's your response to those comments?
ROWLAND: Well, I would again caution people who would seek to impugn one of the smartest legal minds this country has produced. But again, her experience speaks for itself. She will undertake this task with all the diligence that she brought to her life, not only as a solicitor but also as a Justice. I think that the fact that this Royal Commission, its terms of reference and its overall direction has been supported by everyone from the Executive Council of Australian Jewry to the Zionist Federation of Australia to the Business Council of Australia, demonstrates that this choice is the right one.
MILLER: Josh Frydenberg has now said we are all heavily invested in making this Royal Commission a success. Do you note, do you think there's going to be a change of the tone in politics now you've announced this?
ROWLAND: Well, one would hope that the partisanship that we have seen is one that dissipates in the interests of national unity. I think right now all Australians want us to move forward in an environment of security and social cohesion. That's exactly what the Prime Minister has chosen to do with this announcement.
