Minister for Indigenous Australians
Subjects: Closing the Gap, Economic Empowerment, truth telling, treaty, Northern Territory Government funding, Welcome to Country, Senator Price court case, Sydney protest.
ANDREW CLENNELL, SKY NEWS: Joining me live is the Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, who was there yesterday. Malarndirri McCarthy, thanks for your time. What do you make of Matt Cunningham's commentary there that your government's been burnt by the Voice result and you're not going to be too ambitious when it comes to Indigenous affairs.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning, Andrew and good morning to your viewers across the country. One of the things that was also said yesterday was from Djawa Yunupingu, Andrew, when he said that both he and the Prime Minister had shed a tear, and Djawa is the one who now heads the Gama Festival. He said that when he spoke to the strong crowd there, that after the referendum, they knew they had to move on and move forward. So, moving forward is exactly what our government has been doing, working with the Coalition of Peaks, working with organisations across Australia and with state and territory governments to try and close the gap Andrew. It's a tough journey and of course there's always people lamenting the fact that we didn't win the referendum, but we don't have the luxury of that in government. We have to stay focused on still moving forward.
ANDREW CLENNELL: What do you make of Denise Bowden's comments, then? It's a fraud on the nation to treat those in the cities, rich areas in the cities, the same as those in the bush.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Denise Bowden has made those comments on numerous occasions over the years. And with her role, in particular in North East Arnhem Land, it's quite clear to see where Ms Bowden is coming from and it's quite appropriate in terms of the area that she works in with the Yothu Yindi Foundation and the communities of North East Arnhem Land. What I'm mindful of as I travel across the country, as the Minister for Indigenous Australians, is we have to reach out to all Indigenous people and it is a challenge to try and find that balance. It's an important one and it's one I'll continue to keep working on.
ANDREW CLENNELL: There was money famously set aside in the budget for a Makarrata Commission. Has the Prime Minister or his people given you any guidance as to what to do with that or what should happen with that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, I've been on the record only recently as well, Andrew, since the election, looking at what's going on in Victoria, in particular with the Yoorrook Commission, the walk that Travis Lovett, the Commissioner of the Yoorrook Commission, took to deliver that report to the Victorian Government. You have the People's Assembly in South Australia, Andrew, you also have the Voice to Parliament already established in South Australia. When they go to an election in March, it will actually be the first time that South Australians will vote not only for a new government or the same government in South Australia, they will also be voting for their Voice representatives. And in New South Wales, there's work being done. So, I'm looking at all of those things. There is an opportunity to start to think about where we sit at the Commonwealth level and what our roles are, and I won't shy away from that.
ANDREW CLENNELL: Do you believe the federal government will establish a Makarrata Commission at any time in this term or next?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: There are calls always for truth telling, Andrew. Truth telling is really important for First Nations people in our discussions right across the country. We saw even at last year's Garma Festival, the Northern Territory Police Commissioner apologise to the people of the Northern Territory and First Nations people. Truth telling is a significant part of wanting to achieve a better relationship here in this country in terms of the past, but also in terms of trying to move forward. So, you're always going to hear those calls for truth telling.
ANDREW CLENNELL: But my question was, do you think the federal government will establish that Commission? Or at the moment, it's on ice?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, as I've said to you, I'm looking at what's going on in Victoria and in South Australia and in New South Wales, and I'm open to listening to what people are calling for and I will make those decisions in due course if I need to. But it's a conversation that I'll also have with my Cabinet colleagues as much as it is a conversation that I have with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people across the country.
ANDREW CLENNELL: It seems fair to say that because of the Voice result, we're as far away from the Makarrata Commission, or indeed a treaty, as we've ever been, aren't we? We're a long way from a treaty, aren't we? The PM's got no enthusiasm for that.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, the Voice was always about a Voice to the Parliament, to enshrine it in the Constitution and the Australian people convincingly said no to that. So, naturally we've moved with what was status quo and people have mentioned that and that is the National Agreement on Closing the gap, Andrew, and that is really where our direct focus is right now.
ANDREW CLENNELL: Well, let's talk about the Productivity Commission's update on the Closing the Gap report out last week. It found governments are on target in only four of 15 areas and that outcomes actually continue to worsen in four areas, including adult incarceration and early childhood development and suicide. What do you see as the reasons for the failures in those areas?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, naturally each Cabinet around the country, in every state and territory parliament signed up to this agreement under Scott Morrison and then-Minister for Indigenous Australians Ken Wyatt. It's an agreement that every Cabinet Minister is actually responsible to as well. So, when I have the conversations with the Coalition of Peaks, there are 80 peaks and they represent 800 members around the country, and the conversations I have with Indigenous Australians Ministers, what I say in those Joint Council meetings with Pat Turner as co-chair, is that we have to make sure that the whole Cabinet takes responsibility. It's also about my own Cabinet colleagues also being a part of that responsibility, as you saw on the weekend with Jason Clare as Education Minister out at Garma. We saw Michelle Rowland, the federal Attorney-General out at Garma, as well as Murray Watt and Tanya Plibersek, the largest contingent of Cabinet Ministers. And I do thank them for joining me and the Prime Minister out there because they know as I do that it is a collective responsibility on all of us to reach those targets.
ANDREW CLENNELL: That report also found that tough on crime policies of governments like the Northern Territory and Queensland weren't helping when it comes to these targets. But those administrations I guess would report that their policies are working to crack down on crime. So, what would you say to that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Yes, I do want to meet with the Chief Minister of the Northern Territory and I do have correspondence in terms of her other Ministers and I've met with Steve Edgington, the Indigenous Australians Minister for the Northern Territory. What I've said to them is that there needs to be a really strong look, in particular, at the increase of numbers in the justice system here in the Northern Territory. I've gone to the prisons in Alice Springs and in Darwin. I've talked to corrections staff, I've talked to prisoners. The balance of incarceration is far outweighing the push on the other side to keep the community safe in the sense that you have more people in remand. In Alice Springs, Andrew, you have nearly 50% of the prison population on remand and they haven't even had a chance to appear in court. So, the overcrowding issues are absolutely problematic and a real concern on a human rights scale as well. So, these are the conversations that I hope to have in coming weeks. Just excuse me. I think I might be coming down with something too, just excuse me.
ANDREW CLENNELL: It's certainly been through the Parliament, hasn't it? The PM's got it, as Matt Cunningham mentioned, a cold or flu. I'll try and keep my distance from all the politicians I think. I hope you recover from that. Thanks for coming on. But just on that point you raised, your colleague Marion Scrymgour actually said earlier this month that the Commonwealth money given to the Northern Territory Government for Indigenous affairs issues should be audited. Do you agree with that call?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, that's a follow on from conversations that we had through the election that all of the Commonwealth funding to the Northern Territory should be under scrutiny. And it's actually a call that's growing much louder now in regards to even the Indigenous organisations calling for where is the money that's supposed to go directly to family and domestic violence services? Where's the money that's supposed to go to the policing numbers? Where's the money that's supposed to go to the reinvestment in terms of justice issues? Where is all of that going? And that would be included in any kind of call for audits to the Northern Territory Government as a whole. What I want to say to people who are really pushing this now, in particular the concerns around the high incarceration rates, is that we understand at the Commonwealth level that we do fund nearly 80% of the Northern Territory's budget, and that is for all Territorians. And so, we have to be responsible, Andrew, in the way we respond to those particular calls.
ANDREW CLENNELL: Michaelia Cash and the West Australian Liberals have called for an end to Welcome to Country ceremonies at official functions. What do you make of that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, as the Prime Minister said at Garma, it is a dry gully to keep belling the cat on this. It really is unfortunate, I think, that that's all they can concentrate on. The Australian people have moved on. They voted overwhelmingly for a Labor Government in the Australian Parliament, with the numbers that we have, and we're just getting on with doing the business of -
ANDREW CLENNELL: What do you think a Welcome to Country ceremony does for Aboriginal people and for non Aboriginal people? What do you see as the benefit of that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Sure, I can talk as a Yanyuwa Garrwa person, Andrew, I feel very proud to hear the names of different First Nations peoples when I go to different areas across Australia, I want to understand who those people are. As a Yanyuwa Garrwa woman, our people would always respectfully call out moving into the lands of other people, knowing that it was a form of really important respect. So, for me it really comes quite naturally.
ANDREW CLENNELL: There was a newspaper report at the weekend that Jacinta Price is facing legal action from a land council and comments she made about it. She's saying this could force her out of Parliament, send her bankrupt. Do you have a view on that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, I do understand that the Senator has a legal action before the courts, Andrew, and I'm very sure that she's trying to deal with those matters in the way that matters for her. I just think it would be inappropriate for me to comment given that the case is still before the courts.
ANDREW CLENNELL: What's your view of Sussan Ley moving Jacinta Price out of the Indigenous affairs portfolio? Will that have any effect on the way you do business, you run things, or the attacks that would occur on the government?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Senator Kerrynne Liddle is the Shadow Indigenous Australians Minister. She's reached out, come to the Closing the Gap briefings that I had. I've had one this term so far. She certainly came to the end of the last one, along with Senator Price. I do feel that it is a different way of working, if I can interact directly on issues that I know matter on the ground. In terms of remote and regional Australia, we are rolling out policies like the food security policy, Andrew, the remote jobs and it is good to be able to share that information across the Parliament. As I did when I first came into this role a year ago, I'm reaching out to everyone, even One Nation. I do believe we have to try and rise above the politics.
ANDREW CLENNELL: Because how did you see the way Jacinta Price has acted in this space? What's your view of her?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, I certainly don't agree with a lot of the positions that she holds and I respectfully disagree. But isn't that why we're in the Senate? Isn't that why we're in the Parliament, to put the views that we believe we represent, and I certainly represent a different way of thinking to what Senator Price does.
ANDREW CLENNELL: 25 or so years ago, there was a reconciliation march on the Harbour Bridge. Today, a judge has gone against the NSW Government and approved a pro-Palestinian march there. Do you have a reaction to that decision?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, I would just encourage people to protest peacefully, look out for others. It is going to be a significant day down in Sydney today and with the court decision that came through yesterday, I believe, but I would just encourage people to protest peacefully. It is a right that we have in this country.
ANDREW CLENNELL: Minister for Indigenous Australians, Malarndirri McCarthy, thank you for your time.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Thank you, Andrew.
