Prime Minister, welcome back.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good evening, Sarah.
FERGUSON: Today, you called the decision by the Israeli Defence Force not to conduct a criminal investigation into the killing of Zomi Frankcom outrageous. Is it a coverup?
PRIME MINISTER: It clearly is an outrage, and there's a need for a far more transparent and clear explanation from the Israeli government other than what we've received.
FERGUSON: Does that mean a further, some form of independent investigation?
PRIME MINISTER: That, I would've thought, is one of the options that certainly should be considered. But it's certainly not good enough that on World Humanitarian Day of all days, they release this so-called report that essentially says, "Yes, we're responsible, but nothing to see here." Clearly, the death of Zomi Frankcom and her colleagues - Zomi represented the best of Australians. Out there in a dangerous area, helping her fellow global citizens, as she had in other parts of the world that were suffering conflict as well. And that's why she deserves better, her family deserve better, and frankly, Australia deserves better.
FERGUSON: And to be clear, you will press the Israeli government for some form of independent investigation?
PRIME MINISTER: We will press the Israeli government. The direction, we have said today, we'll discuss with Ms Frankcom's family. They deserve to be consulted on these issues, and we'll do that, and then we'll make an announcement in the coming days.
FERGUSON: Is it the very least that the Israelis can do to release the audio of the drone strikes that targeted, then killed Zomi?
PRIME MINISTER: That's consistent with transparency, which is something that we have called for from day one.
FERGUSON: Also today, the Victorian Premier has established a royal commission into corruption in the building industry. You didn't want a royal commission in Victoria. Has the Premier made the wrong decision?
PRIME MINISTER: No, the Premier's made the right decision and we welcome it. There'd already been, of course, actions at the Commonwealth level. I expelled John Setka from the Labor Party, and we put the CFMEU into -
FERGUSON: You've never been keen on the idea of a royal commission in Victoria.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's not up to us to do state-based royal commissions. What was clear is that this organisation needed cleaning up, that's why we put them into administration, which is the strongest action that we can take.
FERGUSON: Will you withhold further money, billions of dollars in contributions from the Federal Government to the Victorian government for the Suburban Rail Loop until the Royal Commission is over?
PRIME MINISTER: We won't punish Victorians. What had occurred under the former federal government was Victoria at one stage was getting 8 per cent of the national infrastructure funding. We want things to be built in Victoria. This royal commission will undertake its work, and certainly the Commonwealth will cooperate with that. But we won't punish Victorians on infrastructure because of some of the actions of some of the people involved with this.
FERGUSON: But how do you know that the money that you have contributed and will contribute to Victoria won't end up in the hands of bikies or organised crime? Because there is clear evidence that it is an ongoing problem in Victoria, not an historical problem.
PRIME MINISTER: The CFMEU have been put into administration. If there's any breaches of the law, then it's important that law enforcement take action.
FERGUSON: I want to talk to you about gambling reform. Did you take the view that online gambling is so popular in Australia that you couldn't go further without suffering some kind of electoral backlash, if you moved to restrict it further?
PRIME MINISTER: No, let's be very clear, Sarah. We had already undertaken the most significant reform of gambling in Australia.
FERGUSON: You always say that, but it's coming off an almost-zero base.
PRIME MINISTER: It's a fact that we're the first government to take action. And the legislation that was passed this week in Parliament, that takes that even further. So, it will allow to add to BetStop, in which some 60,000 Australians have been able to register, 38 per cent of whom have registered to permanently exclude themselves from any gambling. That has made a difference. Now we will have AdStop, where people can take themselves off receiving any ads on any of their devices or online, whatsoever. This is significant reform. If we take, for example, the betting agencies currently involved with something like 14 or 15 NRL clubs, that'll be gone. The naming of grounds, sporting grounds with sponsorships. Gone.
FERGUSON: By 2031, I think the last one.
PRIME MINISTER: Gone in terms of we're not breaching existing contracts which are there and therefore having to compensate with taxpayers. What we are doing is taking very strong action that will make an enormous difference. And I think it's very positive reform whilst acknowledging that the problem isn't someone having a bet on a Saturday if that's what they do.
FERGUSON: Prime Minister, if I may, this has never been about the question of gambling, has it? It's not about a flutter on a Saturday or a punt -
PRIME MINISTER: That's where we disagree, Sarah.
FERGUSON: This is about advertising and predatory practises in gambling advertisements.
PRIME MINISTER: For some people, it is about gambling, Sarah. It is about a view from whatever perspective, be it a moral one, of wanting to stop all gambling. What we have wanted to do is to make sure that we deal with the issue of problem gambling. And that's why we have taken strong action in this legislation as well about incentives, for example, so that if you open up an account, you can't get the inducements for 14 days. If you have been on BetStop and go off, then that applies -
FERGUSON: What happens on the 15th day? What we saw in the Senate inquiry was allegations of predatory behaviour. So, who's protecting someone on day 15?
PRIME MINISTER: What we saw in the Senate inquiry, if the allegations that were came out of that are true, then that's a -
FERGUSON: Do you believe them?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's a breach of the law. That is something for criminal investigations, if that is what has occurred. What our responsibility is to do is to make sure that we don't stop someone betting over whether Alex Johnson scores a try against the Warriors on Saturday night, which might be a $5 flutter to give them some pleasure. I'm not a gambler myself, but some people want that. To make sure that that can occur, but that problem gamblers are protected. That is the priority that we had. It passed the Parliament overwhelmingly with some people, of course, voting against it, but it overwhelmingly had the support, and I think we've got the balance right.
FERGUSON: Whose idea was it to allow open slather gambling ads after 8:30pm? All the big sporting events go well past 8:30pm at night.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, past 8:30pm at night, this is about protecting children. One of the things that we have said as well with gambling is that we want to make sure that we break that nexus, which clearly has developed between people participating in sport and children being exposed to that.
FERGUSON: But how does this do that? Because after 8:30pm at night, as I just said, most big sporting events or even medium sporting events continue well after 8:30pm. So, if you're a child sitting on the sofa with their parents, watching the NRL Grand Final, you're going to see all of those ads. You're not protecting that child with a restriction that ends at 8:30pm.
PRIME MINISTER: We think we've got the balance right, Sarah. We have worked constructively with the entire sector, including I've sat down with the people who are part of the anti-gambling industry, sat down with sporting organisations. I haven't sat down with the betting industry. But I've sat down with others, including, of course, the free to air networks who have arrangements in place. And I think we've got the balance right of providing serious protections. This is serious reform, and this week alone, we have done gambling advertising, we've done the media bargaining incentive to protect journalists and make sure that journalists, including the ABC, are paid for their work. We've reformed the NDIS. We've saved jobs at Tomago in Newcastle. We've got a 15 per cent increase in early childhood educators' wages. We've got for the first time, protections on gig economy workers, the people who work for Uber Eats and these products, which are useful, but for the first time giving them these protections as well. This has been a very big week of reform. And on top of that, with New South Wales here, we of course have our gun laws being agreed to and the funding arrangement to make sure the gun buyback occurs.
FERGUSON: Do you give credit to Angus Taylor for working cooperatively with you this week?
PRIME MINISTER: I think Angus Taylor has been prepared to sit down. Last week in particular, we met three times. It's a good thing that Parliament is able to get outcomes and get results. He's got a difficult issue with his own party room, and both of us went through our party rooms, but he was constructive and that's a good thing.
FERGUSON: About the Sydney Swans and independent of the specific allegation that the police are investigating, what is your message to the Sydney Swans and to the AFL more widely about its culture and attitude towards women?
PRIME MINISTER: The first message that I would say is that our thoughts are with the women involved, and that every woman and every girl has a right to feel safe in any environment. And clearly there are issues before the police investigation.
FERGUSON: That's one side of it. We're not suggesting anything about that investigation or the allegations there, but more generally that event, obviously the Sydney Swans has apologised, the players have apologised. So, what is your message to the AFL about its culture and the way it treats women?
PRIME MINISTER: It's extraordinary that this has occurred. The details are still coming out. But I was a director on a rugby league club a long time ago, literally last century. The idea that this is occurring is completely untenable. And the initial response as well was, I think, completely unacceptable. The NRL have a no-fault stand down clause for issues like this. But the first thoughts should have been always about women and their safety. And I don't think that occurred at this time. And I hope that the AFL certainly needs to do better.
FERGUSON: Why can't the AFL get its culture right in relation to its attitudes towards women, something so basic that should underpin all our relations?
PRIME MINISTER: That's something that they're going to have to have a good look at. Tragically, of course. The development of AFLW, like NRLW, has been fantastic. The Swans and the Giants homeground is in my electorate at Henson Park. We upgraded the facility there to ensure that they can play. But this weekend, they were of course due to have a double header. That was going to be a really good moment. And AFL, of course, is followed by women and men. And I think clearly there's a need for a real examination of those issues and how this has occurred.
FERGUSON: Final question. You've answered plenty of questions about your appearance on the Bush Deep podcast and what you did and didn't do. I want to ask you a different question about it. What did you learn about yourself from your appearance on that podcast?
PRIME MINISTER: You always need to do better. And that's why initially I made a very clear and unequivocal apology.
FERGUSON: Did you learn anything about yourself? It's almost a cliche to say you need to learn about yourself. What did you learn? Learn to do better is almost a cliche.
PRIME MINISTER: You always learn. My mentor was Tom Uren. And he used to say to me two things. You've got to learn something new every day, but also you've got to grow as a person every day. I continue to do that and I continue to learn new things every day, and to do better each and every day.
FERGUSON: And specifically in relation to that, what did you learn?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I learned that I need to do better every day. And of course, if I had my time again, which you don't, then I wouldn't have done that podcast. We have a view which is trying to talk to as many people as possible, but clearly that was an error.
FERGUSON: Thank you.
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.
