The Prime Minister, Anthony Albanese, is here this morning. Very good morning to you.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much, Hamish, and apologies to Sarah. Not a good career move to upset Sarah Ferguson.
MACDONALD: Yeah, just you wait. Next time you're on 7:30, Prime Minister, you might cop it.
PRIME MINISTER: I just want to make it clear that was your decision, not mine.
MACDONALD: So, the social media ban, I mean, I saw your video to young Australians telling them to enjoy the summer, read the book. Is that really what you imagine them doing over the summer?
PRIME MINISTER: I should imagine them having conversations with each other, having conversations with their parents, with their families, getting out, kicking a footy, engaging in the full suite of activities. Learning a new instrument, reading a book, watching the cricket, engaging with each other. The world existed before social media, and it will continue to be a more pleasant place if young people are not put in a position, which they have been with this new technology, where there's no doubt there's been a rise in mental health issues facing young people. There are chemical reasons, scientific reasons, why the algorithms and the way that scrolling will impact chemicals in the brain and encourage them to continue, encourage adults as well, it must be said, to continue to look at their devices. And we needed to do something. This is a big change. We know it will be difficult. We want parents to have conversations with their young ones. As we're speaking I'm sure there are teachers having conversations in classrooms as well. But it is important that society is able to say, you know, enough is enough. Social media is causing social harm and we needed to act. And this is a change of course that hasn't come from the government, as you know it arose from parents really taking what were personal tragedies and channelling that trauma into ensuring that other parents aren't facing what they went through.
MACDONALD: Yeah, I think there's few people that argue the motivation, the intent of this, but it is about the application of it. And, you know, we've heard from parents this morning talking about their kids still being on this, but, you know, there's a plethora of ways in which young people are getting around it. Do you have any qualms about effectively pushing kids into a space of doing something that's against the law?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, this is day one and it hasn't been done before. And one of the things that -
MACDONALD: Sure, I get that. But we know that kids will continue to try to find ways around this, that they will, you know, get parents to help or friends to help or older siblings. I'm just wondering if you have qualms about the space that that puts young people in?
PRIME MINISTER: And on Saturday night coming, like last Saturday night, there'll be someone under 18 gets a beer in a pub somewhere. That doesn't mean that society doesn't put forward laws that are in the interests of society that we're judging is important. There will be people who are in a car, as we're speaking, tragically, who haven't got a seatbelt on, but the law stipulates that they need to do that. So we don't, we don't not do things because they're hard. We know this is hard, we know this will not be perfect, but we know also that this will make an enormous difference. And we'll continue to monitor, the social media companies will have to give to the eSafety Commission the numbers of people who were online on December 9, that is yesterday, the numbers who are online tomorrow, and then each month for the first six months. So there'll be that monitoring of compliance. This is an obligation, importantly on the social media companies who are subject to penalties rather than penalising young people themselves or families.
MACDONALD: Understood. Obviously, Anika Wells has been a little more scarce in her media appearances this morning. Does she still enjoy your full support as a Minister?
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely she does. And she'll be arriving, where I am now, at Kirribilli House. There are live feeds as we are speaking from CNN, from BBC, from global media organisations across the board. This is a very big deal. This is a big reform.
MACDONALD: Do you acknowledge that her use of the travel allowances and the entitlements has distracted from, as you say, this very important moment?
PRIME MINISTER: Of course it is, but the, you know that's just a fact. But a Sporting Minister, Sports Minister going to a sporting event should not be terribly surprising. But Anika Wells has done the right thing, she has referred all of her expenses to the independent authority. They'll have a look at that - that's appropriate.
MACDONALD: Do you think in the future maybe there might be a rule change that means you can't also fly your husband in?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we'll wait and see. But there's a reason why it was put in place. Those measures were put in place after Sussan Ley was forced to resign over travelling to the Gold Coast for property purchases. And it was put in place with bipartisan support. Those rules are there and importantly as well the independent authority was established.
MACDONALD: A lot of people at the moment are blaming the rules, right? Certainly on your side of politics, saying these are the rules, if you're unhappy, look at the rules. So, my question is, do you want to look at the rules? Do you want to maybe make it a little more difficult to fly your partner in to go to the cricket or the footy or take the family skiing in Thredbo? Do you think that's something that's acceptable today in Australian society for our politicians to do that?
PRIME MINISTER: I want the independent authority to have just that - the independence.
MACDONALD: Yes, and they'll assess whether Anika Wells broke the rules. My question to you as Prime Minister is whether you think these rules need a closer look?
PRIME MINISTER: And I'm saying that the independent authority is there. It's important, just as I don't create the rules for things like the REM Tribunal for my salary or the salary of the colleagues that I work with. That's pretty important that that occurred. Just like it's probably a good idea if you don't decide the salary or the conditions of Sarah Ferguson, for example, on the 7:30 report -
MACDONALD: She was just, I think, volunteering the business class seats. I think she was sort of offering those up.
PRIME MINISTER: Well, good luck to her. Good ol' Sarah. But I'm sure if you do a survey out there about ABC expenses, guess what? You find some issues inevitably there. So look, it is important. The point I'm making is that I don't want to be, I've got a big job to do, the job should not be about every element of what every member of Parliament does across the board.
MACDONALD: Understood.
PRIME MINISTER: What it should be is implementing policies and all of that. That's why we have an independent authority. That was established by the former government, I support its work.
MACDONALD: Obviously, part of what we were talking to Sarah Ferguson about was this interview with Linda Reynolds last night. The former Defence Minister. I know you haven't had a lot to say on this, but she was making a very specific call on your government to acknowledge that some of what was said about her was never true. Would you apologise to Linda Reynolds?
PRIME MINISTER: She's got a claim, Hamish, against the Commonwealth at the moment. And the idea therefore that I, as Prime Minister, should give detailed commentary on that, I think you'd be quite clearly, it would be inappropriate. What we know is that courts have found that a staffer of hers was raped in her office by another staffer on the balance of probability. And that's been reinforced by the recent case which was taking place.
MACDONALD: But courts have also found that some of the allegations made about Linda Reynolds were wrong.
PRIME MINISTER: And Linda Reynolds has a claim against the Commonwealth. We've just been talking about taxpayer funds. The idea that I comment on that is entirely not appropriate.
MACDONALD: Okay. Final thought - we just had the St. Mary's choir in, you went to St. Mary's. They've only just introduced girls into the choir.
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, it's fantastic. Well, they've just introduced girls into the school. That, I think, is a fantastic thing. When I went there, it was certainly boys only and I tried out for the choir, Hamish, and I was, my mum would have loved for me to have made the choir because if you made the choir as well, you got to go for free. I didn't make the choir. And then a couple years later or a year or so later when I was going to have to be withdrawn from the school because we couldn't afford school fees, I must say, that I got to go without just paying what we could, which wasn't much at the time. They've changed and now girls, introducing girls into the school will be a good thing. I know that it wasn't necessarily healthy, some of the all-boys activities that happens when you have an all-boys school. Remember the school dances that we had with St. Bridget's at Marrickville and Holy Cross at Woollahra. They were quite events that weren't as good as they could have been because we were so unused to having that day to day contact, I've got to say.
MACDONALD: That interaction. Prime Minister, we're going to let you go. By the way, we haven't had you back on since you got married, so congratulations. How was the honeymoon?
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks so much, Hamish. It was a wonderful day and a celebration of our love for each other in front of our family and friends and people's good wishes as well. I want to acknowledge the generous comments that were made by the Australian people as well towards us, wishing us well. And I can report, Hamish, that what are we now, eleven days in - it's going well.
MACDONALD: Very pleased to hear that, Prime Minister. Listen, thanks so much for calling in. We really appreciate you always keeping in touch here on 702 and speaking to the Sydney audience. We'll look forward to chatting again in the New Year. Merry Christmas.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks so much. Merry Christmas to you and all of your listeners.
