Hon Patrick Gorman MP on ABC Afternoon Briefing 3 March

PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: I want to bring in my political panel for today. First sitting day of the fortnight. Garth Hamilton is now the Shadow Assistant Minister for Energy and Security, which means he gets a better seat also, in the House of Representatives. Patrick Gorman is the Assistant Employment Minister. Welcome to both of you.

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Thank you.

GARTH HAMILTON, MEMBER FOR GROOM: Thank you.

KARVELAS: We have to talk about the biggest story in the world, which is, of course, the war in the Middle East. And I can say in the Middle East, because even Cyprus was hit today, and that's, you know, really officially Europe. So, we're talking about a growth in what is a regional war. I'm going to start with you first, if I can, Garth. Are you worried about this war? Is this something that could look like a forever war?

HAMILTON: I get tremendously worried about war in the Middle East. I spent a lot of time in my life over there. And regime change is not something that happens easily. And for anyone who's thinking that's what's going to follow, you know, very, very quickly, I'm sad to say, I don't think that's what's going to happen. I think the history shows us we're going to have a prolonged, sadly, prolonged escalation of violence over there. And to see, you know, Cyprus getting hit, this is starting to spread very, very quickly. I don't want that to happen. You know, there's nothing about this that makes me, in any way, happy.

KARVELAS: So, why has the Coalition backed it in so strongly?

HAMILTON: Oh, look, I think there's a position that we will always stand by our allies. And the United States have been very strong in their position on that. But that doesn't mean that we should be making any judgement or snap judgements about our role in that.

KARVELAS: So, you think we should be very careful about whether we -

HAMILTON: I think we should always be very, very careful about any steps we take to put Australian lives at risk. That's a very serious consideration that anyone should be making, either in government or in opposition. And we only have to look back a couple of years in the same area to see the really traumatic situation we put Australian personnel in.

KARVELAS: You're a centre left government, and you've just backed in the US and Israel taking this action that's now already led to a regional conflict. Is that wise?

GORMAN: Let us start with the Iranian regime is a brutal regime. They murder their own people, they have a horrendous record when it comes to human rights - which is something I care about. And then it comes to their nuclear ambitions, which does threaten not just regional, but global stability. Of course, I don't want to see broad regional escalation of this conflict. But the actions that the United States and Israel have taken, we support.

KARVELAS: Okay, you know how weird this is? You're like the Labor MP and you're a Coalition MP and you're more cynical about the war than you. What's going on?

HAMILTON: I'm speaking to my personal experience over there, and I think a lot of people should do that. I have seen firsthand what's happened to communities in that area. And I think it's very important that we don't go in with a gung ho attitude about regime change in the Middle East. Having said that, I think Mr Gorman said something very, very important there. This is not a government that's been doing good things by its own people.

KARVELAS: No one would ever say it. Right? It's about what is the alternative and what's the plan for it.

HAMILTON: Well, look, as it stands right now, we are in a conflict. We're seeing that grow day by day. I think the best thing for us now is to make sure that, for a start, we get everybody out of there who is an Australian citizen. And that's been a big issue of conversation today.

KARVELAS: Yeah. You know, the point I'm making about how this is unusual, and Garth is talking to his personal experience, there is a lot of concern, actually, about what this looks like. Is this a one and done thing that Australia supports? Take out the Ayatollah and then stop. Do you want de-escalation?

GORMAN: Firstly, I appreciate Garth sharing his personal experience. And there are hundreds of thousands of Australians who have family connections to the region, who have worked there. Many Australians transit through this region, every single year. But when it comes to what you're asking me to do, which is speculate about where this will go in the future, I am not in a position to do that, and it would be irresponsible to do so.

KARVELAS: But is Australia writing a blank check to the US and Israel to keep going?

GORMAN: What we have said very clearly is that we support the actions that have been taken so far. That is the statement we have made. We are not committing Australian assets or Australian troops to this conflict.

KARVELAS: Would you be very reluctant if asked?

GORMAN: Obviously. And you have seen that reluctance in a range of statements that have been made.

KARVELAS: Okay. So, you don't - any assistance - you're saying Australia should not be involved?

GORMAN: The United States are leading these actions. We support the decision the United States has taken. But it's a decision they have taken with their assets.

KARVELAS: This, of course, will have an enormous impact on potentially our economy and prices. I mean, your side has been really focused, not so much in Question Time today, but I'm going to park that. But generally, trying to talk about the cost of living. And the cost of living is just going to get worse now, isn't it?

HAMILTON: We've seen the impacts of global conflicts on the international economy and here in Australia before. And I'm sure this will play out to us very quickly as well. I think one of the issues that we have here, is the sort of, global exposure to energy markets in that region, and that's going to continue for some time yet. But clearly that's a big issue for us to deal with.

KARVELAS: Yeah, it's going to make the cost of living more acute for Australians.

GORMAN: I recognise that Australians are already under pressure. And events in the world, as we've been saying for our entire time in Government, conflicts in Ukraine have had an impact when it came to inflationary pressures. This will have an impact on the Australian economy. It will have a range of different impacts. It will drive demand for some of Australia's exports, it will make it harder to get supplies that we rely upon for parts of industry and our economy. We have to be open about that. But we'll keep doing what we have done as a Government, which is find practical ways to support Australian households. And one area which I think you see, it sort of shows that, actually, getting Australia to have more energy independence through things like the electrification projects that we've been backing for the last three and a half years, does make a difference for Australia to be able to have that energy independence that we all want.

KARVELAS: Just very brief answers on some mosques mourning the death of this leader. I don't think that's illegal unless you can point to a law. Should it be?

HAMILTON: I'm big on free speech. I think people should be able to express their views and we should be able to make a judgement on them for that. This is not a good guy.

KARVELAS: Not a good guy?

HAMILTON: This is not a good guy. And I think we can make a judgement on people who see this as someone that they should be mourning.

GORMAN: People are responsible for their own actions. I don't know why anyone would be mourning this individual.

KARVELAS: Ok, but if it's happening and it's in our own country, what do we do?

GORMAN: Look, I will take your word, Patricia, that it may be happening. I am not aware of that.

KARVELAS: Reporting that it's happening.

GORMAN: Well, that is concerning. Let's be honest. This is a brutal regime. Who wouldn't allow people in his own country to have the sort of freedom of speech that Garth has just strongly supported. I would encourage everyone who's watching your program, who's thinking of participating in that form of mourning, to rethink it very strongly. Don't abuse your rights. Don't abuse your rights to free speech. And I think that would be an abuse.

KARVELAS: We are out of time, but, yeah, it is disturbing. Thank you to both of you.

GORMAN: Thank you.

HAMILTON: Thank you.