Subjects: Standing Council of Attorneys-General meeting; Working with Children Checks; Gaza.
SALLY SARA, HOST: Top of the agenda of the meeting of Attorneys-General today is standardising the Working with Children Check system right across the country. The calls come in light of a number of allegations of abuse in the childcare system across multiple states. In Victoria, it's alleged one male worker was able to retain his Working with Children Check despite being blacklisted from the industry after an investigation found he was grooming toddlers. Michelle Rowland is the Federal Attorney-General and joins me. Michelle Rowland, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
MICHELLE ROWLAND, ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Good morning.
SARA: Why don't we already have a national system of Working with Children Checks when it was recommended a decade ago by the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse?
ROWLAND: You're right, this was a 2015 recommendation, and it has not happened quickly enough. The reasons for that are multiple. Firstly, the system is very fragmented across states and territories. There are different Ministers who are responsible. Not all cases are Working with Children Checks under the purview of the Attorney-General. That means different departments, different funding sources, there are different IT systems, there are different information standards, and most importantly, these systems do not talk to one another. So, I acknowledge this has taken too long, but I wish to reassure all Australians that the fact that this is the first meeting of the Standing Council of Attorneys-General in this 48th Parliament, this is top of the agenda. This has been work that is ongoing, not only within my Department, which has set up a dedicated unit to achieve outcomes here, but I can assure your listeners that all representatives of states and territories are united in the goal of making this system better and making it safer for children, which should be our top priority.
SARA: Why didn't the Labor government do anything about it in the previous term? That was three years where it could have been sorted out.
ROWLAND: There was significant work that was undertaken in this area to progress Working with Children Check reform. They include making sure that we had established and built on a national reference system, a database that records adverse Working with Children Checks. We also have initiated a pilot which is underway now, and we funded that. There was significant work done in terms of different standards across early education. But you are right, this is an area where we have not had that moment, which has unfortunately been crystallised by the very public and very distressing examples that we've had, not only in Victoria, but Operation Tenterfield in Queensland, recent cases in NSW, where loopholes and child abusers who have clearly been shopping around. These are nefarious people who have been looking for loopholes, who have been able to exploit a fragmented system. But I think what is important here is that we are united in the goal of getting improvements. This is not merely high level declarations, but urgently ensuring that we have results.
SARA: Do you concede that the absence of a national system on Working with Children Checks is still placing kids at risk right now?
ROWLAND: Well, we do need a national system and that is the risk. Absolutely. That is why what I will be taking as the top priority to the Standing Council of Attorneys-General today is national recognition of what we call negative working with children outcomes. What this will mean is that someone who is banned in one state or territory is banned in all states and territories. So, banned in one, banned in all. Your listeners again may be startled to think that this doesn't already happen. It is a fact. But the Commonwealth Government is taking a leadership role here in establishing a system for information sharing capability to make sure that this is overcome.
SARA: When is a national system on Working with Children Checks, when is it going to be fully up and running?
ROWLAND: Well, there are three parts we envisage that the most immediate and urgent outcome is to achieve that. Banned in one, banned in all aspect. In the near term, I will be taking today proposals to establish a continuous monitoring and national information sharing capability. In the longer term, there needs to be a bar raised right across the states and territories to strengthen those criteria for working with children risk and exclusions. Now, in terms of timing, these are matters that will be discussed today. So, I don't want to pre-empt those outcomes.
SARA: What's the reasonable time? What kind of time frame are we talking? Weeks, months?
ROWLAND: Well, I think in terms of the most immediate one, to achieve banned in one, banned in all, I would like to think that this is something that is certainly capable of being done within certainly the next 12 months. If we can have a better sense of that following today's meeting, then that will be a good thing. And I'll be able to share that with the Australian people.
SARA: It's a long time Attorney, isn't it?
ROWLAND: It's a long time when you consider the fact of the fragmentation that we have here, the complex IT systems that need to be done. But different states have different laws and regulations here. They need to make sure that they can affect those legislative changes. They need to ensure that their IT systems are brought up to scratch. But again, the fact that we're having this coming together today with the intense desire to make sure that we achieve a better system, I think is what Australians are looking for.
SARA: Let's turn to the issue of Gaza. As Attorney-General, what advice are you getting about whether Australia is meeting its obligations under international law to prevent genocide?
ROWLAND: Well, absolutely, we receive, but we also provide advice within the national security settings that we have within government, which I'm not at liberty to disclose. But what I will say is that our recognition of the State of Palestine at the 80th session of the UN General Assembly will contribute to international momentum towards that two-state solution. We, as the Prime Minister has very clearly articulated, our position is predicated on the commitments we've received from the Palestinian Authority. And in terms of international law.
SARA: It's not a precondition, it's a condition.
ROWLAND: Well, in terms of international law and human rights, as the PM has said, what's important here is that we need to ensure that international law is adhered to. It is a breach of international law to stop food being delivered. And that's a decision that was made by the Government of Israel in March. We at all times comply and we urge compliance with the Geneva Convention, with international humanitarian law, and as the Prime Minister said, a disregard for the international community's calls and a failure to comply with legal and ethical obligations in this case cannot be tolerated.
SARA: Are you confident that Australia is meeting its obligations when it comes to defence approvals for exports of parts for F35 fighter jets which are finding their way to Israel?
ROWLAND: Well, the Defence Minister has made this very clear. This is not accurate in terms of how this has been characterised. But we do have confidence in our obligations. We have confidence that our obligations are being complied with here, that what is being asserted in terms of the supply of arms to Israel is not accurate and we stand by those statements.
SARA: In what respect, in what respect is it inaccurate?
ROWLAND: This is not a case, this is not a case of the Australian Government supplying arms. It is not the case.
SARA: But the Australian Government has responsibilities if companies, private entities from Australia are exporting arms and those export approvals are done via the Federal Government, Correct?
ROWLAND: Well, again we have confidence, and we have taken advice, again of which I'm not at liberty to disclose, but we have solid advice, and we always comply with our international obligations in that regard.
SARA: Do you regard that Australia is still a friend of Israel?
ROWLAND: Well, certainly Israel is a democracy in the region. We maintain relations obviously at that level. But as the Prime Minister himself has clearly said, these were difficult conversations that he needed to have with the Government of Israel. We stand by the statements that we've made in terms of recognition. It has long been the policy of this government to have a two-state solution and that is what we are pursuing here with this announcement.
SARA: Michelle Rowland, thank you very much for your time on breakfast this morning.
