Subjects: Appointment of His Honour Justice Corey Jenkins to Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia (Division 2); draft Children's Online Privacy Code
MICHAEL CLARKE, HOST: Well, we have a very high-profile visitor in Townsville today. I'm talking about the Federal Attorney-General, Michelle Rowland, on hand for a very special reason today and is with us now. Attorney-General, welcome to North Queensland.
MICHELLE ROWLAND, ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Good morning. Great to be here.
CLARKE: Now there is a reason that you've come because of an appointment that was announced a number of months ago. Just tell us a little bit more about that.
ROWLAND: Indeed, I'm here in Townsville to welcome His Honour Justice Corey Jenkins to the Federal Circuit and Family Court of Australia here in Townsville. And as first law officer of the Commonwealth, I'm very delighted that he has taken up this appointment. It's really important in terms of not only access to justice but also demonstrating to all Australians irrespective of where they live, the importance of the rule of law and trust in our institutions. These appointments don't come up, I thought very carefully about this appointment and I think His Honour will be an adornment to the Court and will serve the people of the area well.
CLARKE: It also marks a long career in law in Townsville too, doesn't it?
ROWLAND: Certainly does. Look, His Honour is a really outstanding member of the legal profession. He's worked previously as an independent children's lawyer and a family lawyer at Legal Aid Queensland. He's been a senior judicial registrar. He understands North Queensland having worked and lived in the area and spending time doing case management. So, he's a very hands on, experienced person. I think that it will be really important for the people of Townsville to know that they have someone of such great stature and also someone I think who understands the area.
CLARKE: Taking part in that welcoming today for Corey Jenkins, appointed to the Townsville registry and the new justice for the Family and Federal Court of Australia, Michelle Rowland, the Attorney-General in Townsville today. But you've got something else on your mind for next week. I understand because the Children's Online Privacy Code, those draft recommendations are going to be released next week. We've already seen the ban on under 16s on social media. What will this new privacy ode encompass?
ROWLAND: Well that's right and this is a really important development in terms of making sure that our laws keep pace with technology. As the previous Communications Minister of course, I was involved in passage of that legislation about the age limits on social media and this is a really important complement to that. It came out of a recommendation that was done into Australia's privacy laws a few years ago. We had the first tranche of those reforms go forward in the last term, but one of those recommendations was recognising the datafication of children. I don't know about you and your listeners, but when I was young, really, the only people who had my personal information were my school and my doctor. But now, tech companies know so much about young people, everything from their moods to their interests and it's been determined as part of this review that there be a code that sets out how children's information can be collected, used and disclosed. I think everyone would agree that the exposure of children's privacy and the lack of protection today, it is something that is really concerning. So, there will be next week the release of that draft code. Your listeners will have the opportunity to have their say and I do encourage them to check it out.
CLARKE: Does that extend even to adults? I'm thinking as well, when we go to anything these days, an app or a website, it seems like you have to log in, you have to sign up, you have to become a member, share lots of personal information. Are we getting to the stage where that's really out of hand now?
ROWLAND: Well, it's a really good question and it really goes to those fundamental issues about how much the regulatory environment has been able to keep pace to date. Look, I would argue that our privacy laws, just like our copyright regime in Australia, is robust. Of course, we did have the need to update privacy a few years ago and it's been a long time coming. But I think the key thing here is because children don't have that agency, whereas companies are already covered by how they can deal with personal information. It really is specific here to children, and even I think the conversations that we're having about young people, what they are choosing to put online, what they are choosing to disclose, and the fact that it is really difficult once your information is out there, to drag it back, is something that we really didn't think about 25 years ago when the platforms were developing. I think it is a really good question about why don't we make the code apply to adults, and I think the answer to that is the vulnerability of children.
CLARKE: So, many of these platforms are multinational companies, they're big players in the digital world. How easy will it be to get them to change their processes or to conform to what our laws may change and become for kids?
ROWLAND: Well, I think the key thing here is around this code having teeth, so it will be capable in enforcement with significant fines in the tens of millions of dollars if it's not complied with. But we always seek to aim for cooperation in this environment as a first step. I must say, there are some companies that we have engaged with who have demonstrated a real willingness and really it becomes a selling point for them to demonstrate that their apps or their tools are safer. But I think, just as you say, with the social media age restrictions, we know, and we knew from the outset that this wouldn't be perfect. We knew that people would find ways around it. But just like this code, there is a normative value there that makes people stop and think and changes the way that we approach how we give over our personal information and how we have conversations with our children as well. I think that's really fundamental.
CLARKE: Attorney-General, thank you for taking our call this morning, talking to us while you're in Townsville, and all the best for your day.
ROWLAND: My pleasure. Thank you.
