Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Assistant Minister for the Public Service, Assistant Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations
TRUDY MCINTOSH, HOST: And also returning to another one of our top stories, the Prime Minister is still confident he will meet Donald Trump while in New York. Joining me now for our political panel, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman and former Liberal MP, Jason Falinski. I must say, gentlemen, it's a real honour to host this panel. I know you two normally give Tom Connell a hard time, I enjoy watching that from the sidelines. I'm sure you'll be better behaved for me though. Pat Gorman -
JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MEMBER FOR MACKELLAR: We'll do the [inaudible] Trudy -
MCINTOSH: - will a quick handshake constitute a meeting for the PM and Donald Trump? I'll get to you, Jason.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: As your viewers know, the Prime Minister and President Trump have spoken four times on the phone. They are due to be at an event that President Trump is hosting in New York on Tuesday that he's invited Prime Minister Albanese to. They will meet for a longer sit down at the appropriate time. But I think Australians know that when it comes to our engagement with the United States, obviously it's a deep, long-standing relationship that's gone across decades and decades, across many different political parties, Prime Ministers and Presidents. We take it from strength to strength. We are doing that terms of the AUKUS partnership. We are doing that in terms of the work that we continue to do in terms of Australian investment in the United States and, indeed, US investment here in Australia. And of course, your viewers know that when it comes to tariffs, Australia has the lowest tariffs of any nation, when it comes to the tariffs that have been implemented. And that is something that I think is a good starting point for those future discussions.
MCINTOSH: And Jason Falinski, I'm sure you'll be as charitable as Pat just was there. How many minutes do they need to talk before we're going to formally count that as a meeting?
FALINSKI: Well I don't think it's the length of time that they're meeting for, Trudy, that matters. It's the substance of what happens in those minutes that matters the most. And look, we live in a very uncertain region at the moment. We need strong allies who we can, who know, that we will stand by them and who will stand by us. So this meeting, I mean - I know Patrick knows this - that Keir Starmer, even Emmanuel Macron, have met with Donald Trump two, three, four times and we are yet to have a leaders meeting with the US administration. So this meeting cannot come soon enough, especially after what happened in Papua New Guinea last week.
MCINTOSH: Well, let's see if we get a handshake and maybe a photo. We'll be watching that very closely. Andrew Clennell is on the ground for us. A big issue that's going to dominate in the next 24 hours - it already is - Pat Gorman, recognising Palestinian statehood. It's officially happened. How does this shift the dial in any meaningful way? Benjamin Netanyahu is saying 'this will not happen'.
GORMAN: For 77 years there has been an expectation of two states living side-by-side. The state of Israel and the state of Palestine. And what Australia has done in recognising a Palestinian state is part of those steps towards a lasting peace in the Middle East. That is what I want to see. That is what I think most, or all, Australians want to see. And of course, we have said very clearly that for the immediate priorities, we do want to see return of hostages and an immediate ceasefire, and we support the United States' efforts to get to that ceasefire. And then we see holding the Palestinian Authority to the commitments they have made. Commitments they have made to reform, the commitments they have made to make sure they fix things such as their education system. That is how we work across with international partners. I mean, the work we have done - same time as the United Kingdom and Canada have also recognised a Palestinian state. We will work with them to make sure that we do our bit as a middle power in global diplomatic terms, do our bit to help build a lasting peace so that people of Israel can live in peace and security, and the people of Palestine can have a state to call their own.
MCINTOSH: Jason Falinksi, Pat's point there is not off the mark when it comes to Australia being not alone here, in terms of this recognition, more than 150 countries now doing the same. Is there a risk, in your view, that the Coalition or Liberals are turning this into too big an issue domestically, that there's other things to focus on?
FALINSKI: Look, there are always other things to focus on Trudy. But the fact is that this is a matter of principle for so many people on my side of the aisle. And I'm not saying - I share many of the principles that Pat just spoke of there - we want to see a true and lasting peace in the Middle East. We want to see an end to the bloodshed. We want to see humanitarian aid and civil society return to that region so that the people living in that region can live in peace. But the fact of the matter is that there is an element of performative art to this. It is almost certain that this will be vetoed by both China and the United States and the Security Council, so it won't go forward. Secondly, it is very dangerous. I mean, there is a large amount of probability that this will now weaken moderates in the Palestinian Authority and in the Palestinian territories. It will be seen as a reward for actions that actually did a lot of harm and have started a war, and that will send the wrong message to the wrong people about the wrong things. It would have been, in my view, and in the view of a lot of people on my side of the aisle, far more sensible not to follow the crowd, not be part of the mob, and rather to try and work - do the hard work - of actually working with Palestinian moderates to bring about those things that I know Pat and I both agree on.
MCINTOSH: Well, let's go to another area I can detect you probably both will agree on; this Optus scandal. Everyone's rightly been lashing the telco in the last 48 hours. But Pat to you - how does the government ensure that these triple zero outages don't happen in the first place? It's a vital, essential service. Should it be left to these companies to, you know, continually have these sort of outages, and they don't seem to report them to governments or police?
GORMAN: I don't think that it should take government having to tell a multi-billion dollar company that when their services go down, essential services, that they should tell someone. I mean, you know, seven year olds have the common sense to tell people when something's gone wrong. I don't know why a CEO would need such a big stick to make them do the right thing by their customers and by their nation. When it comes to the Australian people who have been so badly let down - now, of course, we will have the investigation that's been led by ACMA to make sure we find out exactly the sad, full extent of the multiple failures from Optus. Unfortunately, as we are seeing from the CEO's press conferences every day, more and more failures and more and more points where they should have done the right thing and they chose not to. So, I share the anger that is out there in the Australian community about how Optus have handled this, the tragic consequences of Optus' failures, and as the Minister outlined earlier today, we are looking at everything that is necessary to make sure that we do our bit as the Australian Government to make sure that telcos live up to their existing obligations. We shouldn't have to remind -
MCINTOSH: Jason -
GORMAN: - this should never have happened. But if we have to go down stronger legislative paths or otherwise, we are looking at that right now.
MCINTOSH: Jason Falinski, a quick one from you here on Optus. Do you think ultimately where this ends is the CEO has to go, or should he be the one to have to clean it up?
FALINSKI: Well, I think there is an element of either or, Trudy, I don't know the answer to that. What I will say is, like Pat, the tragic consequences of this are appalling. Australians are right to be appalled. But I'm equally angry with the regulator, ACMA. They did nothing over the weekend. This is exactly - these regulators come to Parliament all the time demanding more money and more power, and they have utterly failed. They have failed the Australian public. They have failed consumers. And there are four people who no longer are alive because ACMA did not do what they are meant to do when operators like Optus, like Telstra, like Vodafone, like all of them do when they talk about upgrades, they run through a systematic checklist with the regulator. Now, the fact that it took them until Monday morning to respond is equally just unbelievable. So we put great power and a huge number of resources in these regulators to ensure things like this can't happen, because we don't trust corporations like Optus to to be reliable in these things. And I think there needs to be a Senate inquiry into this entire situation where everyone brings the truth to the table, rather than the usual point-scoring and blame-shifting that goes on every time one of these failures happens. Because, you know, it's not just ACMA.
MCINTOSH: Yeah, you detect that there would likely be some parliamentary scrutiny on this one. I noticed you're both in Sydney today, Pat Gorman and Jason Falinski. You don't have a rare reunion in real life, or you're just saving it for the TV?
FALINSKI: I'm looking forward to Pat's speech -
GORMAN: I've got bad news for you -
FALISNKI: I won't be heckling from the back.
MCINTOSH: He's not going to heckle, that's a promise.
GORMAN: Jason was kind enough to come to a speech I gave to Business Sydney about a year ago. I'm speaking to Business Sydney again tonight, and Jason's coming back. So I think that tells you that it's going to be a great night. And if it's not, Jason will make sure it's very entertaining.
MCINTOSH: Well, you've both been well behaved -
FALINSKI: That's all good -
MCINTOSH: I have to tell Tom Connell, you're on your best behaviour. Appreciate it, gentlemen. Thanks so much.
