This is a transcript of an interview on 19 November 2025 between ABC News Radio host Rhiannon Elston and the Academy's President Professor Chennupati Jagadish AC PresAA FRS FREng FTSE.
Check against delivery.
Rhiannon Elston: Joining me now is the President of the Australian Academy of Science, Professor Chennupati Jagadish. Good morning.
Professor Chennupati Jagadish AC: Good morning, Rhiannon.
Elston: What's your response to this news?
Professor Jagadish: Rhiannon, job cuts are always challenging, they affect people's lives and it's a hard time for CSIRO staff. It's unfortunate that CSIRO have to do these job cuts. But I understand that CSIRO have gone through a major review and identified their new direction of research to be to be able to meet our national needs.
So, I think these sorts of reviews are healthy. But of course, it impacts people. and that's always a challenge - to be able to manage CSIRO's future direction while also [having] a direct impact on people's lives as well. It is a challenging time for the sector.
Elston: The CSIRO says the cost of science is going up. Are we seeing funding reduced to the sector?
Professor Jagadish: Rhiannon, that is a major challenge and a concerning issue. What has been happening is the cost of research has been going up, and research investments have gone down during the last 15 years or so. We used to spend about 2.25% of our GDP on R&D: this includes business, government, universities and philanthropy, but now we have gone down to 1.63%.
[Funding] going backwards for the last 15 years or so means the entire research sector is struggling, not only CSIRO. Huge amounts of job cuts are taking place across the entire sector.
The major concern, Rhiannon, is this: the OECD average of R&D investment is 2.7%. We are in the bottom half of the OECD countries in terms of our R&D investment.
So that is a major concern for us at a time when the majority of nations are really seeing science and technology as a strategic investment and then using science and technology as a way to influence global decisions.
So, it is a challenge for us. I think we really need to invest more in R&D and change the direction of this downward slope so that investment is moving in a positive direction. We also need to ensure that research and science is seen as an investment, not as a cost.
Elston: The CSIRO hasn't released yet, which specific areas will see those cuts, but they did say that the things we were doing 50 years ago are probably not as relevant as what we're doing now. Which areas of science might they be referring to?
Professor Jagadish: Of course, I don't know which areas of research they will be focusing on. Naturally, you would think that one will be critical minerals, because of their important role in terms of the energy transition and reaching net zero, as the climate changes. And AI. 15 to 20 years back we never talked about AI. But now AI is everywhere and has an important role to play not only in the business sector, but also in the science sector as well.
So, I would think that the CSIRO will be focusing on areas such as critical minerals and AI as emerging areas. It is very important to make sure our national science agency focuses on research and for national interest as well.
Elston: CSIRO must be one of the leading employers of scientist in Australia. What does it do to the sector as a whole to lose so many researchers?
Professor Jagadish: The entire sector has been struggling during the last five years Rhiannon. Thousands of jobs have been lost in the university sector and course CSIRO is now cutting, and the ANSTO as I understand is also going through some challenges.
The current government announced 18 months ago the Strategic Examination of R&D. It's a once-in-a-generation opportunity to look at where our science is, where there is duplication, where the gaps are and the direction we want to go as a nation.
We are very much looking forward to the SERD report, which is expected at the end of this year or the beginning of next year. As a once-in-a-generation opportunity, we hope that the Government takes this report and the recommendations seriously and then adopts or implements those recommendations. And that they start investing in science and research as a strategic national asset for the future of our country, so that we can have a seat at the negotiating table in geopolitical situations as well.
Elston: Okay, Professor Chennupati Jagadish, thank you so much for your time.
Professor Jagadish: Thanks, Rhiannon.
