Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister
GREG JENNETT, HOST: All right, it's time now for our political panel. And joining us in the studio, both of them, we have Labor frontbencher and Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Welcome back, Patrick. And fellow West Australian Liberal Senator Linda Reynolds is here too. Welcome Linda. Patrick, to you first of all, on superannuation. Questions were asked, multiple questions were asked last week about what the long term catchment might be for the $3 million super cap that was announced by Jim Chalmers and Anthony Albanese. Now we know the answer, it's 10 per cent of voters. That's considerably more than the half of 1 per cent you ran on for the last week.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Well, we're talking about 2023. It is half of 1 per cent. That is five in every 1000 people this year in 2023. Now, if we want to talk 30 years into the future, I will be reaching retirement age, then. I doubt I will be caught in that, I should be so fortunate. But really, what we're talking about today, the plan that we've put in front of the Australian people, will only impact five out of every thousand people.
JENNETT: It is a bigger proportion, though. I think some Ministers last week were telling people when asked, the proportion will be about the same, the number may grow, but the proportion will be about the same. That's demonstrably not the case, isn't it, on these figures?
GORMAN: Well, what we know is, of course, demographics change over time. We have an ageing population in this country, and that question that you're referring to was about what's going to happen in 30 years' time on current projections. Now, again, I think there's some interest from the Liberal Party who have, for whatever reason, gone out and opposed this very sensible change - a very sensible change for the sustainability of the Budget. Because what we also know, if we look over that next 30 years, if we don't take sensible steps now, then we have structural deficits in the budget for the next 10, 20 years and we want to make sure that we're actually taking those sensible steps now, so we don't need to look at radical proposals down the track.
JENNETT: And, Linda, as much as we're asking Patrick the legitimate questions here, there are actually a few surprises. You could work out almost yourself, couldn't you? The trajectory of growth over 30 years. All that happened today was we discovered it officially.
LINDA REYNOLDS, LIBERAL SENATOR: Well, Greg, let's call a spade a spade. This is yet another broken promise by the Albanese Labor government. Both the Prime Minister and the Treasurer during the campaign both promised, they promised, that we were not going to have any big changes to the superannuation system. And guess what? Yet another broken promise. So that's the first thing. Is that all of these weasel words that the Governor now trying to use. And again, we saw it in the Senate this afternoon with the Finance Minister, Katy Gallagher. She was ducking and weaving, but she had to admit, as a result of questions from Senator Canavan, that in fact, it's not half of 1 per cent, it's up to 10 per cent, and that there is secret modelling. So, now what we're calling for is let's release the modelling that they have been hiding from the Australian people and see what that modelling actually says.
JENNETT: What do you think it might say, beyond the headline figures that we're discussing here and which, as you say, were put on the record?
REYNOLDS: Well, how do we know? Because the Government has kept it hidden and it was only a very reluctant Katy Gallagher that had to admit that this modelling actually existed. But the key point here is that when Labor runs out of money, they come after your and our and ordinary Australian's money. So, 10 per cent, if you think of that alone, 10 per cent of 20 and 30 year olds today, if they work hard, they will have they will come up to this cap. So 10 per cent. So this half of 1 per cent is nonsense.
JENNETT: To Linda's point 0.5 per cent, you may well have described as not big or not a large change to super, but 10 per cent in three decades time almost qualifies as large, doesn't it?
GORMAN: I think we just saw right then just how out of touch the Peter Dutton Liberal opposition is, describing people with $3 million in their super as ordinary Australians. Now, hats off to those people who've managed to get that much into their superannuation, but it doesn't happen through the normal accumulation of the superannuation guarantee over the course of a working life, through normal average weekly earnings. These people have been very fortunate to have put money into their superannuation. I commend them. We just want to make sure that we don't have unlimited superannuation concessions at that very low 15 per cent tax rate. And the second thing on secret modelling, I think it's very interesting that the party who just a few weeks ago was voting to defend secret ministries from Scott Morrison, is now giving us a lecture about secret modelling. I mean, that is just the most ridiculous thing, the most the biggest level of hypocrisy from a bunch of people who have run a protection racket for the secret ministries over the last few years.
REYNOLDS: Greg, all of these are absolute weasel words. Oh, don't look at our broken promises here, let's start talking about the past. But the fact is, the Prime Minister went to the election and he promised the Australian people, including farmers and many others, in their superannuation funds, who have property, for example, and have their farms in their superannuation funds. Australians went to the election believing the Prime Minister that they wouldn't fiddle with their superannuation and the Government has.
JENNETT: Have you lost the argument politically, though, when you look at things like Newspoll out today, two thirds of people actually support what the Government's done.
REYNOLDS: So here's the thing broken promise. But we now find, oh, that's only a half of 1 per cent, and get the politics of envy out. Only people who have got that much money. But they lie because it's 10 per cent and we haven't seen this secret modelling. So, no matter how much Patrick tries to defend it and say, oh, well, you know things in the past - let's see the modelling and let's see if it's actually more than 10 per cent and what the impact on hundreds of thousands of Australians will be.
JENNETT: We'll keep an eye on that. The Voice machinery Bill, Patrick Gorman, you probably have some visibility on this. The Government has moved quite a way to meet Opposition and other party's demands. Do you think you're going to get there? Is this going to stay bipartisan when it is eventually …
GORMAN: That's our goal, because the reason we are amending the referendum machinery is because we want to see a bipartisan referendum. This is not a proposal of Government to have a referendum on the Voice, this was a proposal from the Uluru dialogue. We want to bring people along. This journey both on how we conduct the referendum and the Government's goal all along has been very clear. Let's make sure that for the 17.3 million Australians who get to decide, let's make sure that it feels the same as the elections that they've been voting in for the last 20 years. So that's what we're going to try and do. We've got a report from the Joint Standing Committee on Electoral Matters that we need to respond to. We're going to take their advice carefully. There's obviously been productive conversations with the Opposition. We hope that continues. And I would like to see the machinery provisions done over the next few weeks.
JENNETT: What would be wrong with that? Obviously there are still some negotiations pending here, Linda, but if this is going to be held, whether you support yes or no, why not conduct it under fair and modernised rules?
REYNOLDS: Well, that's exactly the proposal that the Opposition has put to the Government and you just heard just before this, Senator Ruston discussed that. And we are absolutely all in support of having referendum machineries and provisions that are consistent with previous practice, but that's not what this Government is doing. So, our proposal is so that you have a yes case and a no case. You have them equally funded and equally supported, because it is critical that, as we've done previously, that Australians get the full information on both cases and then they can decide.
JENNETT: Yeah, well, that looks like being the sticking point. I'm not sure we'll resolve it here. And finally, because you're both West Australians. Live sheep exports has been very sensitive there in the West, Pat, and the Government is pressing ahead with a phase out. Is that to the satisfaction of the McGowan Government, your side of politics at home?
GORMAN: What we know is that the Albanese now Government went in opposition with a proposal to the people of Australia, all across Australia. We were very clear in our policy, which was to phase out this industry. That's what Minister Watt is now implementing. We started a consultation process which is exactly what people have been asking for. It's what McGowan Government have been asking for. It's been what a range of people in the industry have been asking for. We're determined to deliver on our electoral mandate, but I'll also note that it's 2023. Now, in 2018, Sussan Ley actually introduced a bill to phase out live export by 2023. Now, she didn't proceed with that. She was in Government at the time. She could have done so. So, I think what we also know is there are people on Linda's side of politics who know that we're heading in the right direction. And this is a very sensible, modest change that we're going to do over time to make sure we consult with industry, but also do what's right.
JENNETT: All right, well, Linda, less than a minute to go in our program today, but you can't say that you're surprised by this?
REYNOLDS: Not surprised, but incredibly disappointed for thousands of Western Australians, particularly farmers in the southwest, who rely on this income. And the thing that Labor really haven't dealt with is the practicalities of this. So, we now have the best standards in the world for live sheep exports coming out of bad circumstances. So, if we don't provide those exports that thousands of Western Australian communities rely on, then they will go to other nations and other markets which are not nearly as humane and do it as well as we do. There's no suggestion, also, we need new abattoirs, but where's the government program? If they do phase this in, it is ill-thought through and it will have a devastating impact on many West Australian communities.
JENNETT: We're going to wrap it up there. Linda Reynolds, Patrick Gorman, thanks for your perspectives as West Australians on that, where it is a live issue, as they say.
