Patrick Gorman Discusses Issues on Sky News Afternoon Agenda

TOM CONNELL, HOST: Let's go live to our panel. Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman. Former Liberal MP Jason Falinski. I'm going to start with you on this, Jason, because you've usually got something a bit different as a take. I'm not quite a contrarian because I know it's all genuinely held. What are you taking out of the midterms?

JASON FALINKSI, FORMER LIBERAL MP: 'It's the economy, stupid.' You know, all the stuff that was going on around everything that that package just talked about - that you had on before - is all true. But it was the impact it had on the economy. So, when the community perceives governments, and particularly elected officials, not to be worried about the outcomes for them, their families and their communities, and they're off doing other things like maybe bitcoin mining, for example, then that sort of starts to really get underneath their skin and that's what drove a lot of votes.

CONNELL: We saw quite a few pushes back against data centres. Pat, do you think that's something that Australian politicians should be wary of?

PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: We did say that in localised areas and there are some races where they've referred to that being a decisive factor. When it comes to Australia, obviously, we have the opportunity to make sure that we have a whole nation approach to data centres and I think that would be broadly welcomed.

But I think, you know, in a lot of different levels of elections - planning issues, whether it be housing - look what happened to some of the Greens MPs who were opposing housing in the last term. Big planning issue. Planning can always get lots of passions going.

CONNELL: All right, passions, I think I know what you mean. Let's turn our focus domestically, though. Look, I had a short stint of leave, but it was long enough to see yet another rate hike, Pat. Inflation - it feels as though perhaps in the first term people said, well, a lot of that was already coming from previous spending. But this is Labor's owned inflation. Is there any sort of pledge from the Government that government spending is part of it, that what we need is deflationary pressure from the Government? And will that be evident in MYEFO?

GORMAN: I can't reveal MYEFO and I appreciate the invitation, Tom. But I won't take it up. Of course, when it comes to -

FALINSKI: Oh, come on Pat. It's just between us.

GORMAN: Look, Jason, you might not know this, but we do have a lot of viewers and some of them give me some pretty interesting feedback after these appearances. When it comes to inflation, we accept that everyone has a role to play in bringing inflation down. Obviously the Reserve Bank do their part of that job through their independent decision making process. We are going through, in the weeks ahead, the work towards MYEFO. We take our responsibility seriously, but we are -

CONNELL: On that there hasn't been a single deflationary budget since Labor's come to office, has there?

GORMAN: Well, yeah, Tom, there were two Budgets with two surpluses. The only surpluses you've seen in the last 15 years, both delivered by Jim Chalmers. You have seen reductions in spending in a whole range of areas from where things were forecast -

CONNELL: But there was more spending than savings in terms of decisions taken. Has there been one of them?

GORMAN: Again, about $180 billion of reductions in spending compared to the forecasts that we had from Jason and friends when they were last in office -

CONNELL: but it's not the net figure, is it? There's $180 billion in spending that hasn't happened for various reasons. That's the normal decisions, I should say. But there's been more - a bigger increase in spending. That's just a fact, isn't it?

GORMAN: No, that's actually not what the Budget papers show, Tom, and your viewers can go and see that.

CONNELL: So, hang on, you're saying there hasn't been a bigger increase in spending than that figure of savings since you've come to office?

GORMAN: $180 billion of savings and two surplus budgets. That is us doing our bit. But of course, when it comes to what's happening in the economy, you can't have any one part of the economy - public or private, federal or state - being the only one taking action on inflation. We all have a role to play. We take that responsibility seriously and you'll see that in MYEFO.

CONNELL: Do you think it's interesting - I had Anthony Galloway on from the Australian, Jason, and he says Victorians are sort of sceptical of more spending now. They don't want to see that. They want to hear how the Budget gets fixed. Are we at that point in federal politics or are people still saying, ok, tighten the purse strings, that's all good, but also what's in it for me?

FALINSKI: Yeah, Tom, we are. This is 1978 all over again. But firstly, Tom, congratulations on your break and the events surrounding that break and the cause of that break. I hope everything is going well at home. Secondly -

CONNELL: I'm just going to say now - we did have another baby in the family. Because it just sounds a bit ominous the way you say the circumstances around your break. So, just for the sake of the viewers, everything's okay. In case my wife is watching, you're doing a good job too. So, go on, Jason.

FALINSKI: So, Tom, congratulations on that and I hope everyone's well. Look, yes, the bond markets are sending a very clear message that the politics of redistribution, of bribing voters is kind of coming to an end. It looks a lot like 1970 -

CONNELL: But are bond markets voters.

FALINSKI: No, they're not. But they send a very clear signal that they're not going to continue to lend money to governments at very cheap rates and that the buffet is over. And that's actually the problem. It's not just government spending, it's all the red tape, the deals that Labor has done with special interest donors, both at a state and federal level. I mean, who can forget Chris Minns decision to hire 33 drivers for a train that is in fact driverless. And that's just the tip of the iceberg of some of the appalling deals that have been done at state levels in Victoria, New South Wales and else places. So, that sort of stuff, the Jobs and Skills Summit that reintroduced bargain - you know, multi-employer bargaining, which we have patent bargain, which we haven't seen since the 1970s. You know, then we had the Productivity Roundtable. That was the only thing that's true about that statement, is that the table was actually round. I mean, everything this government does is about reducing the capacity of the economy to create supply. And so every time it does more spending, when demand exceeds supply, then prices just go up. And that's what we're seeing over and over again in the economy. And it's why real wages have fallen since the Albanese Government got elected. It's why we've been in a per capita recession since September 2022 and it's why people are so cranky and fed up.

CONNELL: There's a fair bit there. I think the table was probably more an oval shape with a sort of long section [inaudible] section for AFL parlance.

FALINSKI: So, you're telling me nothing is true about the Productivity Roundtable?

CONNELL: I don't know, I'm in a strange mood. Pat, but let me go to this. So, this is what I wonder with the Government at the moment. A lot of your messaging has been, look, we're being calm, we're being methodical, everything's going pretty well. Is this the plan where you're at right now? Is this when voters say, hey, do we need a reset? Did you underestimate inflation? Do you need a bit of a pivot to something new? Do you say, no, no, no, everything's good. We've made all our decisions, they're great. Because normally when someone's made some mistakes, what you want to hear from them is, these were mistakes I made, here's how I'm going to change. Is that what you'd say as the Government? Or are you saying, no, everything's great, we're kicking goals?

GORMAN: Firstly, I'll say this as the Government, which is to you, Tom. Congratulations on the bundle of joy that has joined your family.

CONNELL: The government? Alright.

GORMAN: I don't want - yeah, that's from, not just me, Patrick Gorman, that's from the whole government. Congratulations, Tom. Secondly, when it comes to the style of this government. Being calm and methodical and having proper cabinet processes is a good thing. It wasn't that long ago we had a Prime Minister who secretly swore himself in as Treasurer so that he could, if he wanted to, override his Ministers in secret. So, again, standby -

CONNELL: Can't you calmly say that we got it wrong on inflation, we need to go harder. Can't you do that calmly?

GORMAN: And then, your other question before I get to the most recent one, was about, well, what is the Government's plan? We have been very clear from the day we came to office. Our plan is about getting wages moving so people can earn more and make sure that we also, at the same time, bring income taxes down.

And the other thing we've done, which has been of benefit to the Australian people, is to invest in our social safety net. And that has been investment that's been needed across Medicare. Investment to make sure we have an aged care system that works. And look - well, I think it's investment because when you're spending money on the Australian people, so they can get the skills that they need or the career that they want through Free TAFE - or the healthcare that they need - I do think that's an investment, Jason. You can say spending -

FALINSKI: But it's not free. It is spending. It's like - you just say investment because it sounds like it's not spending. But it's spending and its spending that's out of control.

GORMAN: Governments should invest in their people.

FALINSKI: Patrick, fine, but that's not what you're doing. You're just spending a lot of money on a lot of different things. And actually, we're spending more on education than ever before and standards of education are going down. What the people of Victoria are seemingly saying in polling is, yeah, it's great that you're spending all this money, but we'd actually like competent government. And that's not what we're seeing at the moment. So, we've got to stop -

CONNELL: I've got - sorry. Go in 10 seconds, Jason, I got you -

FALINSKI: No. No. Well, what we've got to do is make sure the spending is effective.

CONNELL: Okay, very quickly because I promised I'd put this in. So, the WA push on gas reservation - because you're very parochial, Pat. As we found out over the GST. But you're not going with the WA government urging on this and totally exempting the gas reservation for the state?

GORMAN: Well, I'm a big believer in WA getting a fair share of the GST, but I'm also a big believer in Australia's Constitution. We can't treat one single state differently from others. We have got to make sure we have - when we're doing national policy work - we have a national approach. And a domestic gas reservation for the nation will be a good thing. I don't want to see that at risk. I want to make sure that we get it done. And that's what I'd urge all Senators - our Labor MPs are there ready to vote for it.

CONNELL: Are you worried they're going to jump ship?

GORMAN: Well, look, we're not like the Liberal Party. We don't have people across the floor every single day of the week. We work together.

CONNELL: Put them in handcuffs.

GORMAN: I don't think there's any of that, but we work together. Making sure -

CONNELL: Metaphorically. I've got to leave it there. I'm already in trouble. It probably isn't going to expand. Pat, Jason, thank you. We'll talk again soon.