Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Assistant Minister for the Public Service
TOM CONNELL, HOST: Call it what you like - push back? Is it a full-on revolt? That's against their Gas Strategy, after the Government unveiled that gas will be used in Australia, despite the fact Labor wants to drastically reduce emissions and do so quicker than the Coalition. Labor says it will use gas even beyond 2050, because it is crucial in technologies including battery production. Joining me now, Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, Patrick Gorman, and former Liberal MP Jason Falinski. Thanks both for your time. Patrick, do you want to join the pushback? Are you concerned about the Gas Strategy outlined by Labor?
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER AND ASSISTANT MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE: Well, what I want to see is what all my Labor colleagues want to see, which is that we have less gas in our economy over time. But we do that in a way that is responsible and accepts the reality of where we are, here in 2024. We're not starting from the ideal position, we had a decade of inaction. And we've got now a Coalition we have to negotiate with, who have ridiculous ideas like nuclear power sometime in 2035. What I know, here in WA, is that when I go down to lithium processing plants here in WA, down in Kemerton, just near Bunbury, those plants now are powered by gas. Now, I hope that we have a world where we have technology that requires that not to be the case. But I'm a realist, in recognising that if we want those new energy technologies, those net zero technologies, they come with a carbon requirement at this point in time, now, but I want to that place where we find those -
CONNELL: - Yeah, they do right now, you can't make some of those batteries otherwise.
GORMAN: You can't.
CONNELL: So, you're the Praetorian Guard, are you sharpening your spear to make sure the revolt doesn't turn into a revolution?
GORMAN: I recognise that these are complex conversations. And I think my colleagues recognise that too, from the Resources Minister Madeleine King through to a range of other Labor MPs. I'm pretty comfortable having that complex conversation because it's the only way we're going to get to the point we want, which is Australia reaching net zero by 2050. And I would note, and I think it's important your viewers recognise, that in the strategy that Minister King released just a couple of days ago, that strategy itself notes that Australia's domestic consumption of gas between now and 2042, could decrease by up to 72%. Now, I want to meet and beat that target. But I also want to make sure that we do have a mature conversation about the big economic transformation to net zero. It is complex, and we've got to make complex decisions to get there.
CONNELL: This must be getting serious within Labor because Patrick is not deviating here. He's very serious today. So I'm just noting that, Jason's smiling - no, he's not even an MP anymore, he can relax. Although you're in the bunker, aren't you, Jason? This is one of the critical anti-Teal policies, isn't it, that you're going to get them on? You're going to say they're against gas, they're not realistic? Is this, are you sort of rubbing your hands together at the Teal reaction to this? They're pretty critical of Labor?
JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MP FOR MACKELLAR: Yeah, well, the Teals have have come out punching, but of course, Tom, one of the problems that the Teals have is that they voted for the greatest fossil fuel subsidy package in the history of the Australian federation, which they handed over to the most profitable coal companies in the world. There's not a lot that's complex about this at all. And Patrick knows that. The fact is that since this government got elected, emissions have gone up, not down. Under the previous government emissions went down 21%. Subsidies to the most profitable coal companies in the world, are now close to $3 billion or headed towards $3 billion. The IEA says that if we want to get to net zero by 2050, that we need to triple the amount of nuclear power that we have in the world at the moment. And it also says that gas is a transitional energy source. What Anthony Albanese had to do this week was admit that he has been mugged by reality, and that we do need gas in the short term. But everything that Labor, the Greens and the Teals are doing at the moment is making electricity more expensive, is putting emissions up and is making it more difficult for us to get to net zero by 2050.
CONNELL: Are you in regular meetings with Tim Wilson? You seem to agree with a lot in terms of the Teals? Similar sort of content getting out there? Does that mean you've got one foot in to Mackellar?
FALINSKI: Well, Tom, I think what, what you're pointing out is that all of us, including Tim Wilson, can see the reality that is in front of us, which is that the Teals continue to vote for the biggest fossil fuel package, subsidy package in the world in 2022. Now, it was an idea of Patrick and his government and Chris Bowen in particular. But the Greens and the Teals enthusiastically signed up to it. And the result of that has been that power prices at a retail level have gone up 37.4% and $2 billion so far has been handed to the most profitable coal companies in the world. You know, I think that people need to - all Australians need to stop listening to the rhetoric and start looking at the reality. And before we came on air, you had Wayne -
GORMAN: Jason, I've got to take you away, you're so obsessed with the Teals that you've forgotten what that whole package was about. It was about reducing power bills for people when they had gone up significantly, in part because of the secret power price increases that you and your colleagues left when you walked out the door after losing the 2022 election. We took action to make sure that power prices remained consistent. To give people energy price bill relief. And I know for my constituents here in Perth, that made a difference. That was a $400 power bill credit to every Western Australian. That's what I voted for. I stand by that vote. That was the right thing to do by my constituents. It was the right thing to do when we had otherwise energy prices going through the roof. And I'll just remind all of the viewers that when he had a chance to vote for cheaper power bills, Peter Dutton - like he always does - voted no.
FALINSKI: And I would remind you -
CONNELL: Alright, we're moving quickly through the next couple. Quickly, Jason.
FALINSKI: I would remind viewers, that since that election, that since that vote, coal companies, the most profitable in the world have received $2 billion of your money and your power bills went up nearly 40%. Judge, judge by the results, not by the rhetoric.
CONNELL: Alright, we're getting close towards the end. I feel like I'm going to get in trouble. Look, I'll try to throw in two more quick topics. You've got 15 seconds on this, Patrick Gorman, because it's a really simple question. Is inflation - fighting inflation - still the number one priority of this budget?
GORMAN: We have to face that this budget has multiple priorities. Acting on cost of living, continuing the fight against inflation that we've been having for a number of years now - noting that we have significantly decreased inflation from where it was when we came to office - and dealing with global complexity and uncertainty that we have. That's what this budget's about. We recognise that in complex times, we have to do complex things. And that means addressing more than one challenge at a time.
CONNELL: So it's no longer the number one? That's what it sounds like?
GORMAN: Well, if you asked me what my number one priority is, it's trying to do smart things that give people cost of living relief without adding to inflation. That's what we've sought to do with tax cuts, what we've sought to do with energy price relief, it's what we've sought to do with cheaper child care.
CONNELL: Jason, can you translate that for me in ten seconds?
FALINSKI: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. If George Orwell was still alive today, he'd rename 1984, 'The Albanese Government.' Full stop. This is doublespeak at its best.
CONNELL: Oh that was cruel of me. That was cruel of me. Oh, look, Patrick'll forgive me. I think. I'm gonna end on this note, because we're talking about budgets. We all - I don't know, maybe we run it or we half run, or we have a say on - household budgets. Patrick, what's your best cost of living tip you actually use in your household budget, it can be anything you can think of, it could be in or outside the household. How do you save money?
GORMAN: Oh, look, I thought when it comes to politicians giving people advice about these things, I know it's not always welcomed. So, I'll just let your viewers into my nerdy obsession, which is I am obsessed with cleaning the air conditioner filters for summer and winter. We know that it can save people on their energy bills. I do it, I get up on the ladder, I take them out. I give them a really good wash. Because I think one of the things you can do when you're trying to make sure you manage your budget is act on energy savings. If you go to energy.gov.au you can get a lot more tips.
CONNELL: Alright, that's - that's pretty boring. But mind you, I never do it. And mine is not working very well at the moment. So maybe, maybe I need to listen to you more, Patrick. Jason -
GORMAN: I'll come over Tom.
FALINSKI: Oh no, Tom what have you done now!
GORMAN: I'll take some time off, I'll skip the Peter Dutton budget reply and I'll come and clean your air conditioner filter.
CONNELL: Sounds good.
FALINSKI: And I will come and watch.
CONNELL: Sure, okay.
FALINSKI: I will come and watch.
CONNELL: Yeah, that sounds good.
FALINSKI: Viewers, I may even video it for you.
CONNELL: Now what about you? You're a sort of North Shore Liberal Jason, does that mean you only wash your champagne glass to your Moët every second time? Is that? Is that a good budget tip?
FALINSKI: Yes, that's true. And I buy my jeans pre washed out. So you don't have to put them through the through the washing machine too often. It's very important. Yeah.
CONNELL: Alright. Patrick will come and clean the lint out of your machine and we'll all be more efficient.
FALINSKI: Oh, he'd do it, too.
CONNELL: Jason, Patrick, thank you - I think. We'll talk next week.
