Minister for Indigenous Australians
Subjects: Middle East conflict, Closing the Gap.
SALLY SARA, HOST: A new report tracking Australia's progress on the National Agreement on Closing the Gap has found that four out of the 19 targets are on track to be met. According to the Productivity Commission, adult imprisonment, suicide rates among Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people are worsening. But on the flip side, targets for employment and preschool programme enrolments have improved. Joining me now to discuss further is Malarndirri McCarthy, the Minister for Indigenous Australians and Senator for the Northern Territory. Malarndirri McCarthy, welcome back to Radio National Breakfast.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning, Sally, and good morning to your listeners.
SALLY SARA: Before we get to Closing the Gap, we've had some breaking news this morning that Canada's Prime Minister has announced plans for Canada to recognise Palestinian statehood. As a Cabinet Minister, do you think this increases the incentive for Australia to take a similar stand now?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, the Prime Minister has been on the record, as has the Foreign Minister, Sally, in terms of our positions with the ongoing conflict and the government has made clear we no longer see recognition as being only at the end of a peace process, Sally. We remain committed to working with other countries towards a two-state solution. We also have said there are a number of challenges and it's been said in the Senate this week with Foreign Minister Penny Wong that there can be no role for Hamas in a future Palestinian state and Hamas continues to hold hostages, Sally. So, obviously the news coming out of Canada this morning will be an important one for our government to take stock and I will leave the rest for the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister.
SALLY SARA: As a Cabinet Minister and also from a personal perspective, what's your reaction to the images and reports that have been coming out of Gaza about the humanitarian situation, especially the hunger that is affecting so many?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Absolutely horrific, Sally, without a doubt. To watch the images that we see, people screaming for food, for water, to see those babies, how can you not be impacted? This is about humanity. We have to look out for one another. And to see the aid coming into Gaza is significant. But it's more than that, Sally, this conflict has to end.
SALLY SARA: Are you convinced that Australia is doing everything it can at the moment when it comes to this conflict?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, I'm certainly convinced that our Senator Penny Wong is doing everything she can with all the levers that she holds in her negotiations with other nations. It is important and as we've heard both Senator Wong and the Prime Minister say, we are not immediate players right in the middle of the Middle east conflict, but we can use our influence in other ways and that is by our engagement with our allies.
SALLY SARA: Let's move back to Closing the Gap. The Productivity Commission says the latest reports on Closing the Gap show mixed progress. How do you reflect on this latest data? Some of these targets are going better, but there seems like there's still a long way to go.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: From my perspective, Sally, I was actually heartened to see the shift. It is really important, especially as I'm a pivotal driver in trying to bring our states and territories together around this National Agreement. So, from my perspective, I am pleased to see we can see areas turning in a really positive way. The areas where it's not are the areas that we have pursued vigorously, certainly since coming into this term, but even prior in the remaining months I had in the previous term and that's around justice.
SALLY SARA: Well, one of the key targets that is worsening is adult imprisonment. Prisons are primarily governed and operated by states and territories. What's the federal government's role? What are you going to do in order to try and improve the numbers there?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: I think the last time I spoke to you we just had the Joint Council in the Northern Territory, where all the Indigenous Affairs Ministers met and the Coalition of Peaks, who represent 800 Aboriginal and Torres Strait organisations across Australia. My next step is to work with the Attorney-General Michelle Rowland, which I have been and I will join her at the SCAG meeting next month, the Standing Council of Attorneys-Generals, to pursue the issues that were raised with me through that Joint Council and also by others outside of that Joint Council.
SALLY SARA: The Productivity Commission also says that a tough on crime approach at a state level in some parts of the country is undermining Closing the Gap targets. Is this a dynamic you can work with as a federal government? How are you going to handle that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it's tough. I said that in the Senate yesterday. It's really tough when you have states who are focused on youth, in particular, with the incarceration of young Indigenous youth. Certainly, in the high rates of Indigenous people across here in the Northern Territory. I've been to the prisons in Alice Springs and Darwin. In Alice Springs Corrections, for example, nearly 50% of the prisoners are on remand, Sally. So, there's some serious questions that need to be asked about the criminal offences, the level of criminal offences. I'm not saying that if you commit a crime, you don't do the time. You must do the time that's equivalent to the crime. But we have to have a look at the statistics to ask why is it that we see so many young people before these courts who are in watch houses. Who are in overcrowding. Even the Corrections staff have told me this. The Police Association of the Northern Territory has told me this. These are really worrying trends we see.
SALLY SARA: In this report the Productivity Commission says it remains unable to assess progress against four targets, including access to essential services and family violence. How can governments meaningfully take action in these areas if the data isn't available?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, that will change. One of the things we did at the Joint Council in Darwin was talk about data being a part of the Closing the Gap targets. So, we're going to see a change in the ability to be able to collate that data. So, I'm certainly hopeful we'll see that in the next 12 months.
SALLY SARA: And what's actually happened there? What's at the heart of the problem of not being able to get that data now?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: It's more the collaboration of it across states and territories so that we can have a look at it. There is different elements of data. What we're looking at is that the Coalition of Peaks actually have access to that data. Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island organisations want to be able to see the data themselves so they can meaningfully make the changes that are required. I heard Catherine Liddle on the programme this morning talking about the education sector. That's an area that that peak body is doing a terrific job in. When we enable Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander organisations to be empowered to do this, they do have the solutions.
SALLY SARA: Malarndirri McCarthy, thank you for your time this morning.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: No worries. Thank you, Sally.
