SECRETARY RUBIO: All right. Well, first of all, obviously - do you want to talk - what do you guys want to —
QUESTION: Can we just start asking, unless you —
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, just start asking.
QUESTION: Okay. Mr. Secretary, can I just ask you about tomorrow? It's been a little bit messy. When do the talks start? Will you be meeting with the Russian officials tomorrow in Istanbul? What will be the format of the talks? Will it be bilateral between Russians and Ukrainians, or will Americans be in the room?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, first of all, I'll be meeting tomorrow with the Foreign Minister Fidan and Ukrainian delegation, a senior delegation from Ukraine that'll be in town. And so I'll meet with them. Someone from our team will be involved in the Russia talks. They sent a more lower-level group over here. I hope that those talks will be between Ukraine and Russia with the - our Turkish counterparts in the room, along with someone from our team or members from our team at the appropriate level.
But I want to be frank. I don't think - we don't have high expectations of what will happen tomorrow. And frankly, at this point, I think it's abundantly clear that the only way we're going to have a breakthrough here is between President Trump and President Putin. It's going to require that level of engagement to have a breakthrough in this matter. I don't think anything productive is actually going to happen from this point forward, all that, until they engage in a very frank and direct conversation, which I know President Trump is willing to do.
QUESTION: Do you think that moment is closer, a meeting between the two?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, the President is impatient to end this war. He's impatient, as he's been - clearly said that something needs to happen soon. Too many people are dying; there's too much destruction. And I think he's ready to have that engagement and determine, once and for all, if there is a path forward and what that path is. And it's my assessment that I don't think we're going to have a breakthrough here until the President and President Putin interact directly on this topic.
QUESTION: So —
QUESTION: But is there any pressure of a deadline on President Putin? Because I mean, it's two and a half weeks now since you said if there wasn't concrete progress that you would - and you said at the time now, that you would withdraw as mediators.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, we are not going to - we haven't been chasing this around the world anymore. I mean, that's already happened. We came because we were told that there - I was going to be here anyways, obviously. But we came because we were told that there might be a direct engagement between the Russians and the Ukrainians; that was originally the plan. You all heard the same thing. That was not to be the be case, or, if it is, it's not at the levels we had hoped it would be at. I hope I'm wrong; I hope they have a tremendous breakthrough tomorrow if they talk. But I, frankly, do not believe that we're going to have a breakthrough here until President Trump sits face to face with President Putin and determines what his intentions are moving forward.
What I can say with certainty is that the President - look, he's willing to stick with this as long as it takes to achieve peace. What we cannot do, however, is continue to fly all over the world and engage in meetings that are not going to be productive. Again, I was scheduled to be here anyways because of the NATO summit, and so it just wound up working out that way. But the only way we're going to have a breakthrough here is with President Trump sitting face to face with President Putin and determining, once and for all, whether there's a path to peace and, if so, what it is.
QUESTION: So Mr. Secretary, would - I don't mean to be glib or - but if that's the case, if there isn't going to be any breakthrough or any - is there any progress that you can make tomorrow? Or otherwise, what's the point, from your point of view?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, we would hope so. Again, the level of team that was sent by the Russian side is certainly not indicative of one that's going to lead to a major breakthrough. I hope I'm wrong. I hope I'm 100 percent wrong. I hope tomorrow the news says they've agreed to a ceasefire; they've agreed to enter serious negotiations. But I'm just giving you my assessment, honestly. I don't think it's going to lead to that, just because of the structure and how this has all played out. I think the next thing that has to happen here for there to be a breakthrough, if there's going to be one, is going to involve President Trump's direct involvement, and I believe the President shares my assessment.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, it was President Trump who urged President Zelenskyy to accept this meeting with President Putin. What is your definition on what happened since then? And how did we end up from having Zelenskyy-Trump - Zelenskyy-Putin meeting to actually expecting Trump-Putin meeting?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, again, it's not expecting. It's my assessment, which I think the President shares, that the only one who can break this logjam at this point, if it can be broken, is President Trump. And he just wants to end the war. He doesn't care who gets the credit for it. He doesn't care who went first. He wants the war to end. This is - he outlined this in his speech a couple of nights ago, where he talked about the fact that we - he hopes to live in a world where we are building, not destroying. And so that's what he's trying to do here is achieve piece.
At the end, we all have to remember that this is the goal here. The goal here is not to claim victory one side over the other or to gloat about who out-maneuvered who. The goal here is to end a conflict where every day people are dying, and the longer it takes to end this war, the more people will die. This war will eventually end with a negotiated settlement; it will not end with a military solution. The problem is that every day that goes by and the longer it takes, the more people will die and the more destruction there's going to be. And that's what he's motivated by - 100 percent, entirely motivated by bringing about peace. And that's what we endeavor to do here.
And so it's my view, which I think the President has publicly shared as well - it's his view, I should say, which I share - that the only way we're going to get a breakthrough at this point, after what's happened here, is for the President to directly engage, probably at a personal level, and determine, once and for all, what it is the Russian side wants and whether peace is possible.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, it was announced today that you're headed to Rome for the pope's inaugural mass. Pope Leo at different parts of his life has spoken passionately about the plight of migrants. How do you reconcile what the Vatican has said on compassion for migrants with the Trump Administration's policies?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, first of all, the pope is not a political figure. I know he's covered like one, but they're not. They're the earthly head of the Roman Catholic Church. And the church has strong social doctrine teachings, and I think there is not incompatibility. We, too, are compassionate towards migrants. I would argue there's nothing compassionate about mass migration. There's nothing compassionate about open borders that allows people to be trafficked here. There's nothing compassionate about - either, to the American people, about flooding our country with individuals that are criminals and prey on our communities. There's nothing compassionate about any of that.
But I would caution all of you and everyone not - I understand there's this temptation to cover the papacy as a political office. It is not a political office. It is a spiritual office, and it is one that - it has social teachings that are aligned with the faith and with the gospel. And - but I don't believe those are incompatible with a national policy that shows - tries to prevent mass migration, which is not compassionate to people that are being trafficked into our country and is also not compassionate to people in the country who suffer gravely. When a million people come here illegally, if a thousand of them are dangerous criminals, those are a lot of victims, and that's not fair either, and that's not compassionate.
So - by the way, I mean, and I don't mean this to be snarky, but the Vatican has rules about who can come in and who can stay. So every place has that. It's just - it's what you do to protect your sovereignty. We are the most compassionate nation in the world. Every single year a million people legally migrate to the United States permanently, permanent residency. No other nation is nearly as compassionate as we are. We've been doing it for a long time. But it can't be 5 million people a year that come, with 4 million illegally. That can't - that's just not sustainable and there's nothing compassionate about it for Americans.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, I was just wondering what the administration is doing at the moment to bring together President Trump and President Putin. I mean, are any messages being sent and how soon you think such a meeting can happen?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I don't know all the timeline of it. The President will have to determine that, and - I mean, there's - this is just an assessment the President shared today, which I a hundred percent concur with, and now we'll have to figure out how to operationalize that. So probably - we'll wait until he finishes with his trip, because the President is still overseas. We'll wait to see what happens tomorrow, and then those decisions will be made about a timeline of when and where those meetings would happen.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, on Syria?
QUESTION: (Inaudible) press you (inaudible) on that. What are your response to those critics who would question U.S. position on this very policy of having no discussion about Ukraine without - is a departure from your longstanding —
SECRETARY RUBIO: I mean, they're not critics of the U.S., then, they're critics of peace. We want the war to end. We don't - we want the war to end. We want to save lives. We want to stop the killing and the maiming and the destruction. That's our goal. I continue to be puzzled why anyone would be critical of efforts to achieve peace, which is what we're trying to achieve here. And the President feels like he has a unique opportunity potentially to be a catalyst for that; he's going to attempt to do it.
So in the end - that - I think that what should be celebrated is that we have an American president, the leader of the most powerful nation on earth, who is attempting to be a peacemaker, not a warmaker. And that's something that I think is commendable, not something that should be a subject of criticism. So our goal here is to achieve peace - whether that begins with a 30-day ceasefire or a one-day ceasefire or a final deal that's all negotiated in one - the process to us is less important than the outcome. And the outcome needs to be not just the peace but a sustainable peace, a durable peace. That's our goal. That's what we're going to try to continue to achieve in any way we can.
QUESTION: On —
QUESTION: On - just on that same theme about peace in Gaza, and I know the President had a bit to say today and yesterday. On the ground, I mean, there were more than 100 Palestinians killed today, 80 yesterday, two attacks on hospitals. We've had Tom Fletcher, the UN humanitarian chief, urging the Security Council to prevent, in his words, "genocide." Meanwhile, the families of many hostages are accusing the Netanyahu government of trying to prolong the war for political reasons. What is your engagement with the Israeli Government at the moment? Are you a hundred percent behind the nature of the military action? And what is your own position basically on - as you did with Edan Alexander - talking directly to Hamas to get the rest of the hostages —
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, let me just say: I spoke to the prime minister today, of Israel. I know the President has been in contact with him earlier this week. The President talked about this in a speech the other day that the people of Gaza deserve a better future than what they've had under Hamas. We think that the elimination of Hamas is what achieves peace. We're troubled by the humanitarian situation there. Both the Israelis with American backing and support have offered a plan to deliver aid that doesn't get diverted or stolen by Hamas. I've heard criticisms of that plan. We're open to an alternative if someone has a better one, but it - we are for all the aid we can get without the people - without Hamas being able to steal it from people.
But I don't think - I think all of us would love to see an enduring end to this conflict, which, by the way, would end immediately if Hamas were to surrender. They're a terrorist group. They're a group that kidnapped, raped, murdered innocent people that had nothing to do with the war. And as long as they exist and they're around, you're not going to have peace. They - this is not a peaceful group. This is a group that deliberately on October 7th committed horrifying crimes which has triggered this conflict.
That said, we're not immune or in any way insensitive to the suffering of the people of Gaza, and I know that there's opportunities here to provide aid for them. There's a plan out there that's been offered, that's been criticized by some, but it allows people to get aid without Hamas stealing it. And we'll continue to work towards that in ways that we think are constructive and productive.
QUESTION: And what about - but what about negotiations? Are you in direct contact with Hamas? And would you continue to do that if it gets - if it's a way to get the rest of the hostages —
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I think anybody that tells you there's - there are obviously messages passed between intermediaries in the case of Hamas. There's obviously an external Hamas group and then there's an internal Hamas group as well. This is a terrorist organization; this is a murderous group that still continues to hold innocent hostages and the bodies and remains of dead hostages as well. They should all be released immediately. That's been our position from the very - they should never have been taken to begin with.
So again, we continue - that continues to be our position. And if there's a role we can play in bringing about the release of these hostages and the return of these remains to their families, and we have an opportunity to play a role, we will.
I won't comment any further on the mechanics of it, because I don't want to endanger them, but suffice it to say that we know there are others involved. The Qataris have been involved, the Egyptians have been involved, the Turks have been involved. Numerous countries have been involved in passing messages and in getting results. And it - we're very happy to see Edan Alexander home with his family. It was very uplifting. But we recognize that there are still many others left behind, and we want to see them all released.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, on Syria, you met with the delegation today. Can you tell us your impressions? And also, did you get any reassurances on some of the requests you made, including asking all foreign fighters to leave the country?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah. Look, I think that obviously this is a new relationship. We've now known each other - known them for 24 hours, so it's one that - we think that a peaceful, stable Syria would be one of the most dramatic improvements in the region in a very long time, and we want to do everything we can to help achieve that.
We have governing authorities there now who have expressed, not openly and repeatedly, that they do - that this is a nationalistic movement designed to building their country in a pluralistic society in which all the different elements of Syrian society are able to live together. They have expressed an interest in being at peace with all of their neighbors, including Israel. They have expressed an interest in driving out foreign fighters and terrorists and others that would destabilize the country and are enemies of this transitional authority. And they've asked for our help, and so we're going to try to help them.
Now, obviously, we want to see progress made, and we'll take every step that they take, and it'll be a long road, because it's been a long time. So we recognize that, but this is a historic opportunity and, if it succeeds, would have a dramatic, transformative effect on the region.
I would say that Syria is a place where people of different faiths and backgrounds have lived alongside each other for a very long time. It's only in the last 10 years under Assad's rule, brutal rule, where he gassed and murdered his own people, where he created chaos that allowed foreign fighters to flow into the country and use it as a playground to conduct external attacks, where Iran saw an opportunity to come in and sponsor their groups that turned it into a terrorist highway to empower Hizballah - it's only in the last 10 years that you've seen 6 to 8 million people driven out of that country.
So we want to be helpful. The President said he - if they want to take these steps forward, we're going to do what we can, working with our partners in the region, to help them. And I hope it's successful, because if it is - there's two routes here. One will be success and we'll have a major transformation on the region, or you're going to have a brutal civil war that'll destabilize the region. We would prefer the former, not the latter, and we're going to do everything we can within our control to help effectuate that.
Ultimately it'll be up to the leaders there on the ground to make it happen. And they face some significant challenges, there's no doubt. The good news is that there are regional partners like Türkiye, like Saudi Arabia, like Qatar, like the UAE who are willing to contribute. And frankly, the lifting of sanctions - its first effects will be felt because - not because U.S. dollars are going to flow in, but because our regional partners will now be able to flow in dollars that'll allow them not just to stand up a government that can provide basic services, but also will allow them the work of reconstruction.
One of the things they expressed today - and they're asking for our help - is to identify weapons of mass destruction, chemical weapons, and so forth, identify these sites and remove them from the country. As they expressed today, they are victims of the use of chemical weapons. They don't want these chemical weapons stored in their country anywhere, but you don't just go in and grab a bunch of chemical weapons and put them in a truck; it requires technical expertise to both identify where they're located and remove them safely. And they've asked for our help in that regard, and we're going to be willing to provide it.
QUESTION: On the lifting of sanctions, obviously it's a pretty complicated process. Do you have a timeline for how long you think that might take? And also, how much advance notice was the State Department and Treasury given to sort of start that winddown?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, we - this is a road we were on. So we've been doing the work, the prep work, for it. Their finance minister, we provided him a visa to travel to Washington, D.C. two weeks ago. Their foreign minister, we provided him a visa to - a week ago to travel to New York and met with our UN representative. I was scheduled to come here and meet today with the foreign minister. I was with the President when he made the decision to do this and included it in his speech. So we've been doing preparatory work in that regard. The core of these sanctions are statutory under the Caesar Act. I've had members of Congress - Congress in both parties - ask us to use the waivers authorities in that law. But - and that's what the President intends to do. Those waivers have to be renewed every 180 days.
Ultimately, if we make enough progress, we'd like to see the law repealed because you're going to struggle to find people to invest in a country when any - in six months, sanctions could come back. We're not there yet. That's premature. I think we want to start with the initial waiver, which will allow foreign partners who wanted to flow in aid to begin to do so without running the risk of sanctions.
I think as we make progress, hopefully we'll be in a position soon, or one day, to go to Congress and ask them to permanently remove the sanctions.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, your comments on mass migration - obviously correct that it's not compassionate, and the journey that migrants have to go on is obviously devastating. I think the concern that people have about compassion is that they think about the mega-prison in El Salvador accused of torture and over-condensation of prisoners, and they say those are not - those are deterrent policies for sure, but they're not compassionate. I wonder how you would respond to that.
SECRETARY RUBIO: No, those prisons - that's all anti-Bukele propaganda. It's just not true.
QUESTION: Human Rights Watch, other respected organizations —
SECRETARY RUBIO: They're wrong. They're - I mean, they hate Bukele and so they make these things up, and they can if they want to but it's not true. The people that were removed from this country were dangerous criminals. These were not migrants; these were criminals. Okay? There's migrants, who are people that come here, they violate the law because they broke our immigration laws; those people are deported to their home country. These are dangerous criminals which Venezuela would not accept. These were Tren de Aragua gang members, and MS-13 members who are Salvadorean, who are deported to their country, and they're criminals and they're gang affiliation is a crime in El Salvador, and that's why they were able to - you couldn't even live in El Salvador. You couldn't walk the streets of El Salvador. Now it's one of the safest countries in the region. That's why President Bukele has 90-something percent approval rating.
So, but going back to your point, there is a difference between a migrant and a criminal migrant, and these are - if someone is in this country unlawfully, our law says you deport them to their home country. And most countries will accept their migrants; some don't. But if you're a criminal migrant, then you're going to be deported ideally to your home country, but in the case of the Venezuelan gangsters, the Venezuelan regime wouldn't take them so we had to find somewhere to send them. What they're not going to be is in our prison system, because you know where prison gangs grow and metastasize? Inside of prisons. That's how MS-13 emerged - out of the prison system of California, and then it migrated down to El Salvador, and of course has had a presence in the United States.
So I think that at the end of the day, I would be very careful about that because migrant - unlawful migration is one thing. Unlawful migration by criminal actors who come into this country and commit horrifying crimes is a whole different category.
QUESTION: How long should they stay in prison?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Who is this?
QUESTION: The people that have been deported to El Salvador.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, they need to go back - they're gangsters, and being a gang member is a crime in El Salvador. They can be sent to Venezuela if Venezuela would accept them. President Bukele has offered to send them to Venezuela. And then there are MS-13 gang members who are Salvadoran, and those are also in that prison. We've deported some of them. And obviously, they're Salvadoran citizens. They're not American citizens. They are Salvadoran citizens unlawfully in the United States who are members of gangs and they're under the jurisdiction of their nation's - of their nation's laws, so we're not going to opine on what their nation's laws are. In the case of the Venezuelan gang members, we would have sent them to Venezuela, except Venezuela wouldn't take them.
QUESTION: It's just they've been imprisoned with no sentence; there's been no process, so they could be there indefinitely, for the rest of —
SECRETARY RUBIO: They're gang members that were in the country unlawfully. We offered to send them to El - to Venezuela. The Venezuelans wouldn't take them, so we found an alternative location. Where they're not going to be is in the prison system of the United States, recruiting new gang members while in prison so they can come out and create even more crime in our country.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, is Libya also an alternative place that you're thinking —
SECRETARY RUBIO: We've had conversations with multiple countries, but I'm not going to comment on which ones they are at this point. Nothing's been finalized.
QUESTION: Mr. Secretary, back to your NATO engagements. There are some reports suggesting that you opposed inviting President Zelenskyy to next NATO summit. Is that accurate?
SECRETARY RUBIO: No. I don't know —
QUESTION: And there are other reports suggesting that you also suggested bringing back NATO-Russia Council in framework of Ukraine discussion. Is —
SECRETARY RUBIO: That wasn't discussed today either. I mean, that might happen, but I haven't discussed that. I - on the first point, multiple members today of our colleagues in there raised Zelenskyy being invited. I talked - we didn't oppose it. I mean, obviously, he can - we're bringing the Indo-Pacific countries to NATO. We've - we invited the Syrian foreign minister today to come here and meet with me. So many leaders who are not members of NATO are invited to NATO conferences. They're not at the leaders meeting, but they're invited to the conference, so it's the same with our Indo-Pacific partners. But I don't know where you're getting these reports from.
MS BRUCE: All right, everyone. Last question. Last question.
QUESTION: And could you speak to the outlook of having an American pope, how important this visit is? And what's your read on Pope Leo so far as a practicing Catholic?
QUESTION: Can you tell what story John's working on? (Laughter.)
QUESTION: I've had 12 years of Catholic education. I mean, I'm interested —
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, I don't - listen, guys, maybe I just analyze this different. I'll tell you from - I'm a Roman Catholic. I believe that the pope is the successor of Peter appointed by - through apostolic succession and the interdiction - and the intervention of the Holy Spirit through the cardinals. And the one thing I can tell you is that the only institution that was around 2,000 years ago that's still around is the Catholic Church, the universal church, and I have faith in that system. We've had very good popes, we've had bad popes, but we still have a church, and I think it speaks to the strength of the church and to the validity of it. And as a Roman Catholic I believe it's because the pope, the bishop of Rome, is the inheritor of the power that was left to Peter by Jesus himself and has been passed down through the generations. No other human institution would have been able to survive the ups and downs the church has faced. What's kept it is that he's the rock, and upon that rock he built the church.
That's what I believe deeply and that's how I analyze the situation. I don't - I just don't view him as a political leader. He may have political opinions, and the church has social teachings which have informed much of what I say and have done in politics, especially in the last few years. I gave a speech at Catholic University in 2018 that was built on an encyclical by a Pope Leo. So I - but again, I don't view the papacy as a political office. I view it as a spiritual one.
MS BRUCE: All right, everyone. Thank you very much.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Okay, thank you.
