Minister for Indigenous Australians
JOHN PAUL JANKE, JOURNALIST: Senator, thanks for sitting down and having another chat with us. We really appreciate you being able to make the time. Of course, the news this week is the announcement of the inquiry into racism. Can you tell us a bit about that? But first, tell us, why do you think there is a need for such inquiry?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Last year, when Camp Sovereignty was attacked in such a way, that the vision that we saw on our phones, on our screens showed how much hate there was towards people at Camp Sovereignty and I think it touched something quite deeply, not so much in me, but to the Parliament, to the country, to families in particular, especially for First Nation families, of the horror of this. And then, in January this year, on January 26, 2,500 people, joined an Invasion Day rally. As you do. First Nations families, allies, join all sorts of marches on January 26 for reasons that are very personal and passionate but legal. We, as Australians in this country, have a right to fair and peaceful protest, and that's what took place in Boorloo, Perth. To then hear what occurred there, in terms of an alleged attack. We know that there is a court case underway, so I am being mindful of my words. I spent time with Noongar families and Elders and rally organisers with Senator Dorinda Cox and listened to how they felt. And then when I went home, back to the Northern Territory, with the rains that were flooding our communities and Daly River was evacuated, and all those residents, a couple of hundred people and their families moved and relocated to safe ground in Darwin. When I went to visit them to see that they're OK, the only thing they could talk about was the absolute hate towards them online. No care about their welfare, no care about their concern, or even empathy that they had to be moved due to serious flooding. This is crocodile infested rivers. And so all of this has combined to show, they're just three examples. But First Nation families know in this country that racism is very real. And it was really important to speak to my colleagues, especially First Nations Senators, about this inquiry and I am very thankful for the support of many here. And now there is an opportunity for families across Australia, organisations and individuals, to address the Joint Standing Committee on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Affairs.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: But something like racist attacks on Camp Sovereignty or alleged acts of terror in Perth on January 26th, isn't something that happens overnight. It's got to have built up from somewhere to actually have physical acts of racism or violence directed at First Nations people.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Look, I can speak certainly from my own experience in the Northern Territory and across Australia, but growing up, you see all sorts of behaviour towards people. Our sporting athletes have borne the brunt of it, very publicly. Cathy Freeman, for example, and the battle that she had with those who vilified her for carrying the Aboriginal flag, as well as the Australian flag after victory. Our footballers, in terms of Collingwood and what happened to lead up to the All-Stars game to try and bring harmony between Indigenous All Stars playing football with the Collingwood Football Club. So, this has been going on for decades in very sporadic, high moments of sort of public debate. But I think for First Nations families, we know we feel it, probably more about an everyday experience, or every week. Recently now, I've seen it just so much in terms of the media online and social commentary online. It seems to give people free license to think that they can say whatever they wish, when it's totally unacceptable. Racism should always be stamped out.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: So, what elements will the inquiry look at over the next few months?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: So, people have an opportunity now to put in submissions to the Committee, and it will be conducted over the next six months. I have asked the Committee to report back to the Parliament on September 15, and obviously, it'll be up to the Committee to see if they are ready to do that then, but I have given that timeframe in my request to them to conduct this inquiry. The Committee is also quite powerful in the sense that you have the Senate and the House of Reps, who are doing this together. And when the Senate and the House of Reps are working together like that, I think it also sends a really clear message to all Australians, that the Parliament of Australia is taking this very seriously.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: The inquiry is looking at instances of racism directed at First Nation people, various online racism, the platforms that, for First Nations people, look to enable racism targeted at them. What other aspects are you going to look at in the inquiry? Institutionalised racism, systemic racism?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: For those wishing to put a submission in, you will find in the terms of reference that if the first four and five elements of that terms of reference don't meet you, there is a section that's the sixth element, which says other matters of racism that have an impact on you. So, really, it is up to the individual and organisation to have a look at the terms of reference, think about what it is that they wish to share with the Committee, but also give solutions that you think the Australian Parliament needs to be thinking about. It could be solutions that could be quite simple. They could be quite complex but allow this Committee to do their work and put it to them.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: I'm sure you're aware, as most other people are, of racism that is sprouted online and you would cop it on your official social media. Do you hope that the social media platforms provide statements or evidence or give submissions to the inquiry?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: I would encourage as many people and organisations to really have a look at this inquiry and write submissions to it. In terms of media platforms, well, our government has been very clear of the concerns we hold, especially for our young people, by banning social media for those under the age of 16 - a world first - and we did that for very deliberate reasons. To protect the next generation from harm, from being exposed to commentary like this, that adults are experiencing, but also so that they don't go down the rabbit hole into very violent forms of outcomes. So now, if big platforms can submit, put in submissions, I think that would be important. A lot of the commentary that comes on my social media page and many, many others around the country, of course, there has to be far greater accountability.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: What role do you think that the commentary in this building, in this place, normalises some of that, those ignorant comments, or even some of that racism directed, not only at First Nations people, but multicultural groups, and other groups within Australia, the language that they hear sprouted in the chambers in this building, somehow normalises that thought or those comments, that they can say it in pubs, they can say it in clubs, they can say it in public, they can put it online, that it normalises that commentary?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it's not OK. It's not OK to use language and words that demonise and destroy a person's character or self-belief in themselves, whether they're female or male, whether they're transgender or LGBTIQ+. If they're light skinned, dark skinned, if they have a faith that is different to yours. This is what our country is built on, is the ability to be able to respect one another and to be dignified and have a decent conversation and disagreement with people. And that's what the Parliament of Australia needs to reflect. Clearly, there are real problems when that doesn't happen.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: But in the Senate this week, you had Senator Hanson of One Nation in her Closing the Gap statement, say 'Look, Australia is racist. Yes, it's racist, but it's racist towards white people. That because of all this free stuff or stuff that we give First Nations people, it's actually racist towards white Australians.' What's your views on that?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it's really tough, because you know, you have a party that is voted in by members of the Australian community, and who sit in there as Senators, and it's the same with those of us who are voted in by our respective population. And I think we always have to continuously compete for decency and dignity. We have the oldest living culture in the world here, and I will keep on pushing forward for the dignity and the love and the respect for that. And that's the essence of who I am as a Yanyuwa Garrwa woman, but also what I believe about First Nations people. And there have been great injustices and there continues to be injustices and we should be able to speak out. In this place, we ought to be able to do that and put our case respectfully. This inquiry is going to hear a lot of things. It's going to hear that kind of commentary and what it does to people, and the challenge for this inquiry is the recommendations that it puts forward.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: At the end of the inquiry, of course, recommendations will be made. What's the guarantee that those recommendations are implemented? First Nations people are well aware that sometimes a lot of recommendations are made, but they're not actually implemented. In some way, it's rhetoric over reality. What's your message to First Nations people?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: I'm very conscious that we've been disappointed, as a people, over different policies over time, and not just for First Nations people. I'm sure broader Australians can have their say about politicians in general and policies. So, that is part and parcel of democracy. I think I can only reflect on my role in this, and my role is to be incredibly determined to ensure that not only am I going to encourage people to write and put their submissions to this inquiry, I'll also be encouraging them to be able to appear before it, but also to find solutions, JP. As First Nations people, we're often not asked what the solutions are and we actually have some pretty good ideas. And I would like to encourage families around the country, often you do know what a solution could be. So, put your experiences but also put to the Committee the way you think they should handle it.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: So, in some way, you're asking communities to come together to find those solutions and make those submissions to the inquiry?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Absolutely. If I go back to our great sporting athletes and their ability to rise above all sorts of challenges and that fierce determination, I'd like to see emulated throughout this. That as a people, we rise again, but as a country, we rise even more because we do it together.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: I remember in 2016, when you were announcing that you were going to run for the Senate ticket to get to this place, you actually said a statement that you expect racism, that in running for a seat in the Australian Parliament, you expect racism, and I know it's not just you. It's also the previous Minister and other First Nations members of governments. What does it say about our country that you're running for a seat in our national Parliament and you have to say, yes, I expect to be racially abused? What does it say about this country?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: I think it says more about the understanding of human nature. We know that we have human emotions, we feel empathy, we feel happiness, we feel sadness, we feel jealousy, we feel anger, we feel resentful. I think they're very, very natural human emotions. The key is to rise above the really negative ones, the dark ones, the ones that actually keep you down, but also keep your spirit down and keep those around you down. And I've always felt that coming in from 10 years ago, the challenge was always to look for the light, to look for that blue sky and keep aiming high.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: So, what's your pitch to First Nations people out there, watching this? Why should they contribute to the inquiry if they felt that they'd been the target of racial abuse?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, this is your opportunity to really let the Australian Parliament know about your experiences and how you see the Australian Parliament can assist, to make life better, not just for yourself, but for our next generation of young Australians.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: And finally, Minister, Pat Turner has announced her retirement from the Coalition of Peaks, what's your thoughts on Pat and the career and the contribution that Pat Turner has made to this nation?
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Well, it has been an absolute honour to work beside Pat over the last couple of years as Co-Chairs of the Joint Council in terms of Closing the Gap. I am delighted to have had that opportunity. She is a powerhouse, an absolute legend, really, in terms of showing a fierce determination of paving a path through for those of us to see it is all possible. Has no patience for foolishness and I have really learned a great deal from her. I actually reflect on, I think I was still a schoolgirl when she was making her way in the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and in different places throughout the Commonwealth in terms of the bureaucracy and she has always been a very straightforward person, spoke straight to you. You may or may not have liked what she says, but it was always, I felt, with a clear determination to improve the lives of First Nations families. And that has never faltered. From my moments as a schoolgirl, to working beside her as a Senator and Minister for Indigenous Australians, I have always admired that powerhouse strength and spirit, and I just think that whilst she is now able to have some time to herself and her family, I know I'll still humbug her.
JOHN PAUL JANKE: And she'll still humbug you, I dare say. Minister, thanks for sitting down with us today and having a chat.
MALARNDIRRI McCARTHY: Thank you.
