Eugene Daniels: Mr. Mayor, thank you so much for doing this.
Mayor Zohran Kwame Mamdani: It's such a pleasure. Thank you for being here.
Daniels: Led us into City Hall. After you won in the primary - I'm going to take you back a little bit - the New York Times ran headline that said, "Mamdani triumphed without a majority of Black voters." There have been questions and criticism about what kind of mayor you would be for Black New Yorkers, but there has been some recent polling by the New York Times that found Black folks here in New York had the highest approval rating of you of any ethnic group and by 55 percent, was what they said. What do you think changed?
Mayor Mamdani: I think that for a number of voters, it was the first time that they were hearing of me. You know, I recall at the time in that primary it was an introduction more than an ability to persuade someone. And I knew that I was going up not only against another candidate, but frankly against a legacy of a name. And in the time since then, we've been able to show exactly what we are governing for, and that is the working person. And when we talk about a focus on the cost-of-living crisis, we know that for Black New Yorkers, that's not an intellectual concern. The city has lost 200,000 Black New Yorkers over the last few decades alone. From 2010 to 2019, we saw a 19 percent drop in the population of Black children and teenagers. So, in focusing on the affordability crisis, in delivering on that crisis, we are finally bringing the struggles of Black New Yorkers and New Yorkers across the five boroughs to the heart of our politics, and not just to the footnotes of it.
Daniels: There's been a long-running criticism, argument made about Bernie Sanders, democratic socialists in general, that democratic socialism treats class as the primary lens, and race as secondary, even sometimes ignoring it completely. The assumption being that if you fix the economic inequality, racial inequality will just follow - it doesn't require its own focus. It seems like you're saying you disagree with that.
Mayor Mamdani: I think that we need to have a vision that encompasses all of these things. We have to have an understanding of the impacts of class, and we have to an understanding of the impacts of race. We cannot divorce the racial inequities we see across this city, which are so stark in just the measurements of median household wealth and income from the political choices and decisions that have been made over many years. And I even think about - there was a policy that Rudy Giuliani had implemented of a tax lien sale, we found that the city was six times more likely to sell tax liens in a Black neighborhood than in a white neighborhood. That and the impact that it has on homeowners [is] one of the reasons why we put a pause to that sale. And I think it just speaks to the many ways in which government has exacerbated racism across not just the city, but frankly, across our country through its political choices. And it's time to actually address it through not only acknowledgment, but frankly through affirmative policy.
Daniels: I want to move to the racial equity plan from the city. On April 6, the assistant attorney general, Harmeet Dhillon, posted that your plan "sounds fishy and illegal, we'll review!" Have you had any actual communication with the Justice Department over this?
Mayor Mamdani: You know, I have not had direct communication myself. Our team is always in communication with the federal administration over a number of areas of disagreement, but we are fully confident in this report and in our ability to withstand any pressure.
Daniels: Are you worried about them coming here and taking federal funds in order to change the plan that you have in place?
Mayor Mamdani: I think none of our values or our laws are bargaining chips. And we will not step back in the face of any of this kind of pressure because we're not embarrassed about these things, we're proud of them. It's what makes us New Yorkers. And so, if the federal government has issues with this report or any other policy, we look forward to that conversation, but it's not one we're going to shrink from.
Daniels: You're one of the maybe only mayors, Democrats who has engaged with Donald Trump and the Trump administration publicly and it seems like everyone left [Trump] not fighting. What is the trick to that conversation and the relationship with Donald Trump that other mayors maybe could take a note from?
Mayor Mamdani: Well, I think it is unfair in that I have an advantage in that we are both from New York City and we share a love of the city amidst many disagreements that we have, whether about the country or about the city. And one thing that the president said to me as well as to the public is the better the city does, the happier he is. And in that, I ensure that our conversations are focused on how we can do better for the city. And that doesn't mean shying away from disagreement. You know, I've sat directly with the president, and I've spoken to him about the fact that I believe that ICE raids are cruel and inhumane. I believe they do nothing to serve the interests of public safety. It just means being honest and ensuring that it isn't a conversation around personality or the two people who are there, but rather around the people of New York City and how we can deliver for them.
Daniels: Just over the river here in New Jersey, there's the Delaney facility. There are folks there that are on hunger strike over the conditions. What's your reaction, and I guess more importantly for New Yorkers, what prevents a facility like that from opening here in New York?
Mayor Mamdani: I think there are a few things. One is a reaction of pain at seeing what people have to go through in these kinds of facilities. And these are conditions that - they offend the conscience of so many, not just here in New York City, but frankly across the country. This is partially why I have put forward a vision alongside so many others to say that ICE should be abolished, that there is no way to reform this kind of cruelty that we're seeing endemic in the way that immigration is being enforced across the country. When it comes to our city, we are proud of our sanctuary city policies. We are proud of the policies we've put forward and also the executive orders we've put forward to ensure that every single agency is complying with those policies.
Daniels: What do you say to people who say language - and there's Democrats in D.C. - who say language like "abolish ICE" are unhelpful for the political health of the Democratic party?
Mayor Mamdani: I think if we - we've listened to them before and look where we are. I think it's time to develop a new vision for this party, one that is unflinching in its beliefs and also uncompromising in its principles.
Daniels: You are one of the most prominent figures on the party's left flank. How does the left win over more people in the Democratic Party?
Mayor Mamdani: By delivering. You know, there's a lot of talk about the debate and what we have an opportunity to do here in New York City is to deliver on that vision. You know, two people can argue all they want, but when you show somebody the ability to deliver free childcare for 2,000 two-year-olds this year, 12,000 two-year-olds next year, every two-year-old by the end of four years, it showcases what we're fighting for and why we believe so deeply in it.
Daniels: Now you have this Twitch show, "Talk With The People." What should Democrats be doing differently to message directly to folks? Or to go through the media to do it, but to change the way that they're doing it?
Mayor Mamdani: I think we have to ask ourselves, how are people consuming the news? How are they understanding the world around them? And then meet them there. We cannot condescend any longer to the way people understand the world around them. We have to actually be there. And I think that also speaks to our politics. Too often, if you ask someone what they believe in, they're going to list off a five-step program for what it is that they would deliver for you. People want to know, what are you going to do for rent? What are you going to do for housing? What are you going to do for gas? What are you going to do for groceries? We have to have answers to that and that's what we're trying to show.
Daniels: Do you think the leadership of the Democratic Party understands that?
Mayor Mamdani: I think that the party as a whole has lost its focus on working people and I'm hopeful that we start to develop that, and frankly, we used to have that.
[Commercial Break.]
Daniels: We are going on to the 250th anniversary of this country. You came to this country as an immigrant, now lead its largest city as it turns 250. What does this anniversary mean to you and what story of America should we be telling on July 4?
Mayor Mamdani: This anniversary to me is a celebration of everything this country has fought to be and everything we keep fighting to ensure that it not only remains, but it can become. And as you said, I came to this country at the age of seven, living in New York City, growing up in this city. One of my proudest moments was when I got to become a citizen of this country, and it was only a few blocks away from where we are right now. And I think in celebrating the 250th anniversary of our nation, we also celebrate the fact that every year our nation is reborn in that same image we were fighting against impunity, against tyranny, and with a belief in liberty. And even in the time from now until then, we will see so many more Americans being born, whether as children being born in our country or whether as people who are becoming citizens for the first time. And I can't wait to welcome them all here.
