Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister
TOM CONNELL, HOST: Welcome back. Let's go to the panel everybody waits to see each fortnight. The Assistant Minister to the Prime Minister, which I guess is like another Deputy Prime Minister, that's what I heard he calls himself, anyway. That's Patrick Gorman, and Jason Falinski, who might be the Prime Minister we never had. Gentlemen, thanks both for your time.
PATRICK GORMAN, ASSISTANT MINISTER TO THE PRIME MINISTER: Good to be with you, Prime Minister Tom Connell.
CONNELL: Of course, I'm the politician that never was. Let's just start on temporary protection visas. Patrick Gorman so the current cohort, nearly 20,000 people will now be able to apply to be permanent residents. Is this something at least that's monitored in case it somehow starts boats coming to Australia again? You might reconsider it? What's the process on seeing the effect it has?
GORMAN: Well, as you say, firstly, these individuals will have to apply for this new visa, which will enable them to continue doing what they've been doing for the last decade, which is living and being part of their communities across Australia. Of course, we take advice from both Department of Home Affairs and other agencies to make sure that we do everything in our power to ensure the Operation Sovereign Borders continues and that we don't have anyone dying at sea. It's important to note that this is a cohort that really has been here since 2013 and all of the architecture that ensures of Operation Sovereign Borders continues as strong under this government as any previous government is there.
CONNELL: Jason, are you starting coast watch there at Mackellar? What are your thoughts on this?
JASON FALINSKI, FORMER LIBERAL MP: Well, Tom, as you know, I'm the son of a migrant, of a refugee, so I'm always in favour of any measures that will make Australia a more open and welcoming country to those people who are looking for safe harbour. I am genuinely worried about these changes. I'm worried because they allow the people smugglers to say that the incentives now exist once again. Those people who cry compassion, who are never there when people die at sea, who are never there when the people smugglers take their ill-gotten gains and use them as they do. And we all know who I'm talking about. We're talking about so many of those in the Greens and on the crossbenches who claim to be compassionate but don't care when refugees and the most vulnerable in our world end up dying at sea. So, I'm going to take Patrick at his word, as I often do. He is an honourable person and if these provisions do backfire and do see an upsurge in illegal arrivals or unlawful arrivals, that changes will be made as quickly as possible. These measures are not about cruelty, these measures are about keeping people safe. I would make one point though, which is maybe there are so many people awaiting to find out where their refugee status will be confirmed. Maybe Mark Dreyfus shouldn't have sacked the AAT. In one of the most extraordinary decisions that I have seen from a First Law Officer ever. And those applications could still be being processed as we speak, I think.
CONNELL: Well, from memory it's in place, there's a transition that's going on. I'll just let you respond to that briefly though, Patrick. Is that a fair synopsis of what Jason said? That if somehow this restarts what measures could be taken? Is that how you sum up Labor's position?
GORMAN: Well, I think what it ignores and why I think it's important to tell your viewers is that what will continue is both turnbacks and regional reprocessing. So what Jason has tried to suggest is that somehow this is a broader change to the architecture of Operation Sovereign Borders. It's not. Operation Sovereign Borders continues as strongly under this government as any previous government. Boat turnbacks, we have turned back every boat or returned it to port, every boat that's attempted to arrive in Australia under an illegal arrival that is, of course, under our watch. And when it comes to regional processing, we're as strong as the previous government on regional processing.
CONNELL: It will take years to see whether a change like this will make a difference. I guess we'll know soon enough. What about the RBA, Patrick Gorman? Really interesting situation with this private briefing for investment bankers. Not that that is something that has never happened before, but it comes when Philip Lowe won't actually talk to the public, give an address, he's done at the National Press Club the last few years. Is that a bad juxtaposition?
GORMAN: Well, I understand why people want to hear the reasons behind the decisions of the Reserve Bank because they do impact the budgets of millions of Australians. I know that government members will be asking tough questions of the Governor of the Reserve Bank this week at the House Economics Committee and in Senate Estimates. That's what the Australian public expect. We deserve full transparency from the Governor of the Reserve Bank. Now as the Treasurer has said it is not the government that decides the diary and appointments of the Governor of the Reserve Bank. It's an independent authority but with good, strong oversight and people will see that oversight this week through the parliamentary processes, asking on behalf of the people of Australia to explain that decision, but most importantly, to explain what is driving the decisions the Reserve Bank is making around interest rates.
CONNELL: Jason, you're unencumbered your frank and fearless advice for Philip Lowe, or the entire board if you'd like?
FALINSKI: Sure. You know, Bernie Fraser had these private briefings with investment banks and commercial banks. Steve Kennedy, who's the Secretary to the Treasury, has been doing it since Jim Chalmers got elected. We saw Ken Henry do it on several occasions. The only reason this is a big deal for the Labor Party now is because this is about distraction and diversion from the real cause of inflation in Australia, which is the waste and mismanagement of so many of their programs. And even the Greens are calling them on it now. Whether it's the Emissions Reduction Fund, whether it's the Housing Fund, whether it's the Industry Manufacturing Fund, all these things are being called out now by the Greens. Inflation is not created at the Reserve Bank, it is not created by commercial banks in Australia, it is created in Canberra.
GORMAN: Jason, you're an economist. You know that none of the programs you just mentioned are currently contributing to the inflationary pressures in the Australian economy.
CONNELL: Let me just pause the debate there, we are going to go briefly and then come back.
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CONNELL: I've got Patrick Gorman and Jason Falinski with me. I'm just going to fire a couple of quick ones off the back of our RBA conversation. The first one to you, Patrick, on the budget and spending and so on, and contributing to inflation, do you take seriously the warning from the IMF that off-budget items, including $15 billion on the National Reconstruction Fund, still contribute to inflation? Should you be hastening slowly in some of these programs?
GORMAN: Well, we took this program of the National Reconstruction Fund to the election, so we have a commitment, a bond with the Australian people to deliver it.
CONNELL: But you'd had inflation since the election, so you could delay it at least.
GORMAN: We also know that making sure that we have more sovereign manufacturing here in Australia and those secure, good paying jobs that come with it is in our national economic interest. So we will obviously look and take very carefully every investment decision that is made by that fund. But I don't accept the argument from the Coalition, Greens, a Liberal-National Greens coalition, who are trying to slow down and delay the mandate that we have from the people of Australia to deliver in Australia's future of manufacturing.
CONNELL: And Jason, you mentioned inflation. The RBA essentially trying to fight against Labor to bring down inflation. What's Labor actually done so far that's contributed or increased inflation?
FALINSKI: Well, of course, with their Coalition partners, the Teals, they funded coal mines by $800 million. In fact, I think it's closing in on a billion dollars that they're paid to coal miners since they got elected. That also wasn't a covenant that they had with the Australian people. Other covenants included reducing the cost of housing, other covenants included reducing the cost of energy and also reducing emissions. All those three things have gone up. I mean, a week doesn't go by when Anthony Albanese doesn't find an extra $200 or $300 million in discretionary spending that he would like to throw to someway. Thank God he took Christmas, New Year off.
CONNELL: But what's happened, sorry, are you saying any of those measures have contributed to inflation?
FALINSKI: Tom, what we know, I mean, the IMF is very clear about this. Government spending in Australia is the one largest factor in driving inflation. You can't keep blaming the invasion of Ukraine. That's over now. The thing that is driving it is government spending coming out of Canberra.
GORMAN: It's important that your viewers know, Tom, that the fastest growing cost on the budget is servicing the trillion dollars of debts that Jason, Josh Frydenberg, Peter Dutton and others left behind when they walked out the door.
CONNELL: We're going to have to end up there, a bit truncated.
FALINSKI: Tom.
CONNELL: Go on, five seconds Jason.
FALINSKI: Tom, it's important to know we didn't, sorry.
GORMAN: Jason just apologised for the debt.
CONNELL: It's important to note we're due for an ad break.
