QUESTION: So here he is, the Secretary of State, one of the finest people we've got in this country, my old friend, Marco Rubio. Marco, good morning, pal. How are you?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Hey, good, good. I'm doing well, Sid. Thank you. Great to be back with you on the radio.
QUESTION: You know what's funny? You're not going to remember this, but we had the debate on my show 15 years ago at Frank's place in Fort Lauderdale when you beat -
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah.
QUESTION: — Charlie Crist and Kendrick Meek. You remember that.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah.
QUESTION: But the following year - May 2nd, 2011, Marco - you called my show unprovoked because the day before because we killed Bin Ladin. And I have the audio.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah.
QUESTION: In 2011. Does that feel like a long time ago?
SECRETARY RUBIO: It really does. They had that whole Netflix program about it the other day. You know what's amazing about that whole thing, is that the night before that happened was the - that correspondent dinner people used to all go to. That's kind of been dead now here, but - and Trump was in the audience that night. And Obama sort of —
QUESTION: He was?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah. Trump was in the audience at the correspondent dinner. That was the night right before. And Obama was, like, making jokes about him, and this, that, and the other.
QUESTION: That's right.
SECRETARY RUBIO: And a lot of people - and a lot of people say that was the night that Donald Trump decided he was going to run for president. And he didn't run right away; he waited four years. So I think that was a heck of a night, all these people in that place, that thing happened, the next morning the Bin Ladin thing happened. So anyway, yeah, no, time flies. That was back in 2011. That's crazy.
QUESTION: Fourteen years ago, you're right. That was the impetus, that was the motivation, behind President Trump eventually running.
So look, before we get to the stuff at hand with the country, I've got to tell you this. I know she's listening right now. Your girl, Laura Ortiz Rodriguez, is great. And she's Colombian, and I know that you are very close to a lot of Colombian people. Your wife is Colombian American, for example; terrific lady. And many of my listeners up here are Colombian. So yesterday we learned about the passing of the young presidential candidate Colombian Senator Uribe. He was shot in the streets of Bogotá two months ago - feels like yesterday. But now he's died. So I'll ask you, Mr. Secretary: What are your thoughts on this tragic passing? What does that mean for Colombia moving forward?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I hope it doesn't lead to more incivility. Look, first of all, he actually comes from a family that's been touched by tragedy before. His own mother was well known as well, and then she was held hostage by one of these drug cartels and died in an operation trying to save her. So he had already lived his life of pain in that regard, and then ran for office. And then - so I don't know if you saw the video, but the guy just walks up to the back of him and just shoots him right in the head.
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: In a rally. And this is still a year away. So look, we're very concerned about Colombia. Unfortunately, the president of Colombia right now, this guy Petro, is just in our view someone who has been quite erratic in his decision making and some of the things he's doing. And that's a problem because you have these drug gangs that are operating out of Venezuela with impunity. Like, no one challenges them. They openly operate out of Venezuela but project power into Colombia and are destabilizing the country. And it would be tragic because Colombia's come a long way. People forget in the early '90s, Colombia was basically a failed state. I mean, it was on the verge of a collapsed state, and they fought so hard to reclaim the country from the cartels. And just the thought that it could slip backwards due to political violence or drug violence or whatever in any way is just heartbreaking.
And we just hope that the institutions in Colombia - the military, the courts, all the - many of the people there in the congress, in their congress, are not for this game plan that's going on right now. And so they'll have elections in about a year and hopefully the country will get back on the track that it was on, which is one of the strongest, closest partners America has in the region, and a country that's come so far. But I think we've lost some ground here over the last three years, and it's just sad being so close to it in terms of, like, so many people I know that are from there or still stay in touch with it.
QUESTION: Terrible. And Mr. Secretary, you mentioned the cartels, and I must give you guys credit - you, Trump, the whole administration. What a tremendous job. Really, the easy one was first just recognizing the cartels as a terrorist organization; it should have been a long time ago. So thank you for doing that. But you mentioned Venezuela. I think the reward is up to 50 million now for Maduro. Is that right?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah. Yeah. And what people forget about Maduro - they call him a dictator because he is and all that - he's not a government official. In essence, we don't recognize his government as legitimate. That is not a legitimate government. What he is is the head of a drug trafficking logistics organization - a cartel, the Cartel of the Suns, which is basically run by the military. They basically allow drug dealers not just to move drugs through Venezuela but to do so using, like, military facilities, okay. So they have - it's like a drug cartel took control of the national territory. So they need to be treated for what it is, which is not a government, not a dictatorship per se; it is a drug cartel. It is a narco-terrorist regime that's empowered itself of Venezuelan territory. And from there it extends down to the Mexican cartels, the gangs in Ecuador and through Central America. But we've got to take this stuff seriously. They are flooding our country with poison every single day, destroying and ending American lives, ripping up American families, wiping out American communities. At some point we've got to say we're going to take this people on, and we've got to take them on with more than just rewards, by the way.
QUESTION: Yeah, that's right. So while we talk about designating the cartels, Marco, as a terrorist organization, I got to ask you: Why wouldn't you guys designate the Muslim Brotherhood and CAIR? I just - I look at these organizations, I have a mayor's race here in New York City with this psycho, this lunatic Mamdani. Both of these groups you know are behind him, especially the Muslim Brotherhood. Is that something you think we can count on maybe in the near future? Maybe not CAIR just yet, but certainly the Muslim Brotherhood?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, all of that is in the works, and obviously there are different branches of the Muslim Brotherhood, so you'd have to designate each one of them. But let me just tell you that there's a process which I didn't fully appreciate till I came into this job, and I know people don't want to hear about processes, but because these things are going to be challenged in court, right? Any group can say, "Well, I'm not really a terrorist - that organization is not a terrorist organization," so you have to show your - you have to show your - the paperwork. You have to show your work like the - like a math problem when you go before court.
So we have to go through this process internally where you have to do the review, you have to document and justify what it is. You can know something is what it is, but you still got to go through it so that when someone comes back, as you've seen - they don't hesitate to go to court now. We are tied up in hundreds and hundreds of lawsuits of every kind. All you need is one federal judge - and there are plenty - that are willing to do these nationwide injunctions and basically try to run the country from the bench. So we've got to be so careful.
But all of those things are - that you just discussed, without getting into great detail because I can't yet, are in the process. We are constantly reviewing for groups to designate for what they are: supporters of terrorists, maybe terrorists themselves, whatever it may be. We haven't done this in a long time, so it's - we've got a lot of catch-up to do. And you've mentioned a couple names, particularly the Muslim Brotherhood, that are of grave concern.
QUESTION: Secretary of State, my old friend Marco Rubio. I want to go back to international stuff in a moment, but I want to stay here right now. So President Trump yesterday federalized the D.C. police, Marco. He deployed the National Guard. I think it's great. I think it's great, but of course Democrats are claiming it's racially profiling black communities. Bowser in D.C. - she's another lunatic, by the way - she's yelling and screaming about Trump, but the truth is look at the numbers. Marco, just look at the numbers, man. They're bad, and that poor kid got beaten up a couple of weeks ago, so I applaud what President Trump is doing. It's not racially motivated. It's safety-related, no?
SECRETARY RUBIO: It - there's two things going on. I mean, the first is that the numbers don't lie. I mean, people who live here, people who have to be here all the time, the perception, the feeling every single day is real. You go to any - you go to a CVS, you go to - I don't - is Walgreens still in business? But I guess CVS or one of these places, you walk in, okay? Everything - everything in Washington - is now behind lock and key.
QUESTION: Same here, yup.
SECRETARY RUBIO: You go into these places and everything's locked up. So the carjackings - I mean, there are neighborhoods in the past where some of these ride share services refused to go in because of the carjacking. It's a problem. It's big.
But here's the additional problem, and the President made this point yesterday: Washington, D.C. is the front porch of our country. Like, when we bring leaders here from all over the world - from all over the world they come to Washington to meet with us and so forth - this is what they see. And what they see is a place that is increasingly violent. What they see when they turn on the news is news reports that someone got assaulted, someone got murdered, someone got this. This is our nation's capital. We have to have pride in it.
And so I applaud the surge of law enforcement. These are - in many cases what these are going to be, you'll see, are habitual offenders, right? Repeat offenders. I had a conversation with an officer here like two years ago when I was still in the Senate, and he said, "Look, we don't even bother to arrest these people, because you arrest them and an hour later they're back in the street."
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Because they won't prosecute or they won't need to post bail, and they're - this guy said he had - he had arrested the same guy twice in the same day for two separate crimes at one point because they're - it's a revolving - you got to deal with this thing once and for all, stamp it out.
Now, there are probably a lot of other cities where this needs to happen, but I think Washington, D.C. being the place we live and work, and it's like the front door to the country for all these visitors - we've got to have some pride in that.
QUESTION: My city, Marco, is just like that. Everything's locked up, bail reform, all these laws that quite frankly the guy running for mayor, Andrew Cuomo, was governor, put into place, has really hurt this city and this state. So everything you're saying, I got you, just in bigger numbers right here in New York City.
Now, let me give you some credit. I know you're a humble guy, Marco. I've known you for 15 years. But what a job, ending four conflicts already - Cambodia-Thailand, India-Pakistan, Armenia, obviously, and DRC and Rwanda. Just an incredible job. But there are a few more I know you want to end. One of them is the meeting that's about to take place on Friday. That's Trump and Putin - this Russia-Ukraine situation. Putin calls him and Trump goes, "Vladimir, don't do this," and Vladimir goes, "Okay," and then he hangs up the phone and then he bombs Ukraine. I mean, it's insane —
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah.
QUESTION: — how Putin has just completely disregarded what anybody else wants. What does your gut tell you about Friday's meeting?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, I think it's a feel-out meeting to be honest. I think - here's the way I would describe it. The President talked to Putin on the phone three times and - or four times. Okay. And nothing has come of it and - or at least we haven't gotten to where we want to be. And so the President feels like, look, I've got to look at this guy across the table. I need to see him face to face. I need to hear him one on one. I need to make an assessment by looking at him.
And people have to understand - for President Trump, a meeting is not a concession. If you watch some of the news - I don't watch a lot of it anymore - but you watch it, and these people are going nuts. Oh, this is - what a win for a Putin; he gets a meeting. He doesn't view it that way. A meeting is what you do to kind of figure out and make your decision. I want to have all the facts. I want to look this guy in the eye. And that's what the President wants to do. So honestly, I think we're going to know very early in that meeting whether this thing has any chance of success or not.
And the President is an extraordinary dealmaker. Look, I didn't know him before he ran for President. I mean, I knew he was, obviously, but I've gotten to work very closely with him here over the last six months and even my first - his first four years in office when I was in the Senate. He's an amazing negotiator. I'm not just saying this because - I mean, he really, truly is. He has a tremendous instinct for deciphering human nature, so understanding how to navigate these things. And I do think - I've seen it be very successful in these trade deals when he comes in and closes them, and they're always in person. It's hard to do that on the phone. So I think that's what Friday is going to be about, and we'll have a better sense of it. It's not going to be easy. This war means a lot to Putin. I mean, the last month, the Russians lost - I think in July they lost 60,000 Russians - not lost like missing in action - like dead.
QUESTION: Yeah. Dead.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Sixty thousand - 60,000 in one month. If you think about - I think in Iraq it was a fraction of that, that we lost, and that was terrible. Imagine 60,000 in a month. So it just tells you what these guys are willing to give because of how important this war - and of course, the war is very important to Ukraine because they're fighting for their country, they're fighting for their future. They don't want to be a part of Russia. So it's a tough one. But you cited the other ones, and the credit goes to President Trump. I mean, he's made it a priority - he says I want to do peace deals. I want to be the President of peace. And so any time we see a conflict where we think we can make a difference, we get involved, and we've had good success in that regard. India-Pakistan, Thailand-Cambodia, the peace deal with Azerbaijan and Armenia just a few days ago.
QUESTION: Yeah.
SECRETARY RUBIO: So we're working through those and we're looking for more that we can work on.
QUESTION: That Azerbaijan conflict - 30 years, 7 million dead. That was an amazing job. Two more Marco; I'll let you run. And he loves you, President Trump. You guys had a pretty contentious battle back in 2016 and all the nicknames and all that stuff, but he did say, as you heard on Newsmax, I think last week, Marco was "born for this job." I mean, he really does love you. You guys work great together. But with all the talk about Russia, Russia-Ukraine, that meeting coming up on Friday, Marco; on Iran, of course, with the amazing job - I saw you on television moments after that successful bombing a couple of weeks ago. Everybody I speak to in and around D.C. says to me: don't take your eye off the ball. The most dangerous country in the world today is still China. It's still China. Is that 100 percent accurate?
SECRETARY RUBIO: I think it's the biggest challenge we face. Because, like, the 21st century is going to be defined by the relationship between the U.S. and China. There's no doubt about it. They are our competitor and our adversary in multiple fields - whether its technology, commerce, trade, military, intelligence, you name it - geopolitics. I mean, they basically want to gain at our expense. That's a fact. So I think we've entered a period with them where I think both sides realize - I think both sides would also benefit from a period of strategic stability. In essence, we have pretty high tariffs on them right now. I mean, we're collecting a lot of money in tariffs right now from China. They're being - tariffs at 54 percent.
But I think ultimately, we've come to the realization - and should have a long time ago - that part of our problem with China is we let them take businesses that once belonged to us. And so the reason why we buy so much from China is because we once used to do it, we let them take it, we gave it to them, and now we - we've got to reverse that. If we want to depend less on China for some of the things we rely on in everyday life, we've got to start making more of that here in the United States.
And that's what President Trump is focused on is bringing back those factors, bringing back that industrial capability, bringing back all those things we once used to do in this country but now buy from China, because they can hold that over our head. If this continues, they can, in the future, blackmail us. They're already doing it now. They could threaten to cut us off of things we need like medicine, for example, pharmaceuticals if we don't do what they want. That's a very vulnerable position to be in. So apart from everything else, military and the like, that is the one area of vulnerability that I think we're trying to address. I think the tariffs are helping because if it makes it more expensive to make it in China and sell it here, it makes it cheaper - theoretically, anyways - to make it here, to sell it here. And we're starting to see some of that come back, and that's good. And that - again, something that's been a priority for President Trump.
QUESTION: It is horrible that we have to rely on them for computer chips and medicine - 87 percent of the world's antibiotics. I mean, I don't know how we got to that place, Marco, but I'm sure glad you guys are trying to fix it.
Finally, I saved the best for last, the most passionate for me, and that is the Israel-Hamas situation. You've been —
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah.
QUESTION: You've been terrific. And Marco, I know how you feel about Bibi and Israel. I don't know how a country that went through what we went through October the 7th all of a sudden became the criminals on October the 8th, but I knew it was going to happen. It happened quicker than I thought, to be honest, Marco, but I knew it was going to happen. But now we still have 20 hostages left there. Bibi wants to take over complete control of Gaza. Very simple question: Do you believe if in fact Netanyahu does that, that sooner than later it will mean the end of this horrible war?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Well, there's no doubt the war ends the day Hamas stops existing as a military threat. I mean, that's the bottom line people don't understand. The guys who led this thing, that killed and murdered and raped on October 7th - horrifying - I mean, since - forget about October - they don't talk about it anymore. They're talking about, yeah, it's a one-day thing, it happened, it was very bad - it's all been forgotten. It's now all about the humanitarian crisis. And I'm not for a humanitarian crisis. I'm just telling you that that's all people are focused on now, and not October 7th, which is —
QUESTION: Yeah, but if you bring up the humanitarian crisis, Marco, is it not fair to say that while the world is blaming Israel, that is just inaccurate, that Hamas and other forces inside Gaza take all that stuff - it's not Israel or America's fault.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah. No, that's right. And so I think the bigger challenge that people forget is the humanitarian crisis existed even before because of Hamas. In essence, they have held captive the 2 million people that live in Gaza. They - that's their human shield. They hide behind these people and they put them out front on purpose while they hide in tunnels. I think it's also important to remember, if we're going to talk about the humanitarian crisis, we should spend an equal amount of time talking about the fact that, as we speak, there are 20 living human beings in deep suffering underneath tunnels. And there's no cameras there. There's no BBC news crew in the tunnel interviewing these hostages. The only thing we see from them are some propaganda videos that Hamas puts out, which is horrifying, okay? We need to be reminded of that.
We also need to be reminded that none of this would have happened, there would have been no war, there would have been no bombings, there would have been none of this had Hamas not done what it did on October 7th. They're the ones that started it. They're the ones - and a group like that cannot be allowed to continue. It has to be eliminated. It has to be eliminated. Everybody says - we agree - the Arab League came out and said we agree Hamas needs to be disarmed, it can - disband it - they can no longer exist. But you've got to do something about it. They're not going to just do it voluntarily, and to do something about it involves, unfortunately - now, it would be great if Hamas just quits tomorrow and says look, we'll quit, we're out of the terrorism business, we surrender, here's our guns. But that's not going to happen.
QUESTION: Right. No.
SECRETARY RUBIO: And so as long as Hamas exists, there will be no peace in Gaza. That's a fact. You can have a ceasefire for 30, 60, 90 days. You can do whatever you want. You will not have peace in Gaza as long as Hamas exists. And the sooner we grasp that and the sooner people grasp that, the sooner they understand what the objective has to be here.
QUESTION: And to wrap this up in a nice little bow, Marco, what's going on with these European countries? I mean, this guy Macron, he's a disgrace. Let's be honest. France, Canada, the UK - the UK is threatening you and Trump: hey, if there's no peace in September, we're going to do this. Australia, Ireland - what's going on with these European countries?
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, and first of all, it's largely meaningless, right? It's symbolic, and they're doing it primarily for one reason, and that is their internal politics, their domestic politics. In the UK, in France, in many parts of Europe and Ireland, for a long time their domestic politics has turned anti-Israel or whatever it may be, and they're getting a lot of domestic pressure to do something, but it's largely meaningless. The truth of the matter is that the future of that region is not going to be decided by some UN resolution. It's not going to be decided by some press release by a prime minister or a president from some country. It's going to be decided on the ground. It's going to be decided by: when will the day come when Palestinian areas are not governed by terrorist organizations? Because that's truly what this comes down to, and that is the security of Israel.
The reason why there's a war right now in Gaza is because Israel was attacked. And as long as people govern these spaces who are going to attack Israel, you are not going to have peace. So for everyone who wants peace in the Middle East, it begins by eliminating and wiping out or moving away the groups, the organizations that are willing to attack Israel, who make it their purpose the destruction of the Jewish state. That's a fact. Whether people want to accept that or not, the sooner they accept it, the sooner we have a chance at peace there. It's difficult and it ain't easy, but that's a fact. But all these statements are meaningless, like they're not - they're not going to change anything.
QUESTION: Good to hear that. We got to find a way to get Rabbi Kaploun - he loves you; I know you love him - and Mark Walker jobs, because the Senate's going to take about 10 more years, I'm afraid, Marco. I have no idea what these people are doing.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Yeah, it's unfortunate. It takes a long time. But these are good people. We've got to get them in place.
QUESTION: I agree. Hey, it's great to catch up with you. You've always been great to me - 15 years - and again, I'm so happy for your success. And I'm telling you America loves you. Marco Rubio, America loves you, so continue success. Give my best to the boss, and hopefully we'll do this again very, very soon. Thank you so much.
SECRETARY RUBIO: Absolutely. Thank you. Thanks.
QUESTION: Alright, Marco. Take care, pal. There he is, the Secretary of State, Marco Rubio.
