Minister for Indigenous Australians
STEWART BRASH, HOST: Malarndirri McCarthy is Labor Senator for the NT, Federal Minister for Indigenous Australians. Good morning Senator.
MALLARNDIRRI MCCARTHY, MINISTER FOR INDIGENOUS AUSTRALIANS: Good morning Stewart and a big hello to all your listeners. Good to be with you.
HOST: What's in this budget for Territorians?
MINISTER: Well there's quite a lot for the Northern Territory in terms of overall with the budget, Stew. We've certainly continued our investment especially with health. I think the Medicare Urgent Care Clinic is a real big winner and continues to be that. I mean just there in Mparntwe alone we've seen around 33,766 visits just there in Alice. So, we know that investing in the health and investing in Medicare is really important. But overall, the tax cuts is really what this is about, rolling out tax cuts, Stew, just for every Australian taxpayer and that includes those in the Northern Territory. We've got around 120,000 people in the Northern Territory who will benefit from this through the $250 Working Australians Tax Offset and along with the $1,000 instant tax deduction.
HOST: Can I ask you about this Minister? We're in a cost of living crisis made worse by the war in the Middle East. None of these benefits will flow to Territorians til at least the middle of next year with the tax offsets and so on. So, what about now? Right now what is going to make my life better? I'm just being self interested here Senator, but what is going to make my life cheaper and mean I can deal with these economic headwinds?
MINISTER: I guess immediately it is with the health. We have focused largely around the health, we've maintained the PBS system where you can have reduced costs with the caring of your health. That's probably the primary immediate feel that people will see. Yes, we're looking into the future with regards to the tax cuts into the next 12 months and following that. But we're also conscious, as you rightly said, that this is a budget that we've had to centre around what's happening globally and that means the investment as well around protecting our fuel reserves.
HOST: Well back to fuel. What about the fuel excise cut? There was no thought put to pushing that further and forward into the next financial year because that was at 26 cents. That's a nice bit of money, nice bit of coin in my pocket. There was no thought about extending that?
MINISTER: Well, you know more than halving the fuel excise and reducing the heavy vehicle road user charge to zero for three months has been important and doubling penalties for major breaches of consumer laws. I mean, we are still watching very closely what's happening in the Middle East. We know that we're in stage two in terms of our four stage plan and if we have to move to stage three, we will be ready.
HOST: One listener's already said, Steve said, 'Why not a taxation, more taxation on gas? If we want income, why not tax gas rather than going after trusts and capital gains and negative gearing?' Why no more taxation on gas?
MINISTER: Well, look, we have introduced a domestic gas reservation scheme Stew, to secure gas and we have said, and this hasn't made everyone happy either, and we know that budgets usually don't make everyone all happy at once. But the reservation will require gas exporters to supply a proportion of their total production, equivalent to 20% of exports from July. So we are working.
HOST: Will that make it cheaper? It might mean we have access to resources, but will that make it cheaper?
MINISTER: Well, we certainly want to make sure that the cost of living for Australians overall improves and that's important, and that is our focus.
HOST: Let's not waste time talking about broken promises because we could stay here all day talking about that. My question for you is, with these changes in negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, how is this going to make my daughters' job of getting houses, buying houses, easier? Because they're both in their mid-20s, they at some point would like to buy a house. How is this going to make their life easier to buy a house?
MINISTER: Well, we've listened to what grandparents and parents and young people have been saying, Stew, and that's why we've made this decision to change course to improve for our young people across Australia. And I'd like to think that if your daughters are going to an auction for a place, whether it's in Alice or elsewhere, they have a fair playing field, that they're not fighting against those who are already investors, that they have an opportunity to purchase a home at a decent price.
HOST: How much will it reduce though, the price, the cost of buying a house? And we're talking nationally. I know you can't micro down to Alice Springs, but how much cheaper will this make it?
MINISTER: I can't micro down, but I would be interested to hear from your listeners just what it would do for them. I mean, obviously this is our plan nationally to be fairer for all Australians as best as we can. Of course, we're going to hear from each state and territory jurisdiction as to what's happening with the house prices in your regions. And I'd certainly be keen to hear from Alice Springs residents.
HOST: Well, Tony is just saying the changes will have the exact opposite effect to the stated goal. Rents will rise, housing will be less affordable. Do they have a point there? Because we have a rental market in, say, the Northern Territory. It is incredibly tight, very low vacancy rates. Have you looked at what impact this will have on the rental market here? Are we going to lose rentals and make it even tighter by removing the negative gearing encouragement?
MINISTER: Well, what we're looking at with this policy, and to let your listeners know that we expect that over time the government's housing policies will put downward pressure on those rental markets. And that's what's important here. We know it's not about changing today or changing tomorrow or this weekend when people go to look at a home, but it is about the gradual decline in those rental prices.
HOST: Can I just look at something else? And this relates to, I think, a request from some Aboriginal organisations in the lead up to this budget. Now, Aboriginal organisations have been lobbying for increased welfare payments for remote residents by increasing the Remote Area Allowance. What was the result of that lobbying? Has there been an increase?
MINISTER: Certainly not in the Remote Area Allowance, and I understand that Minister Plibersek's office has been in touch with a number of organisations to speak with them about that. What I would say to your listeners is that again, it is an issue that we have not left behind. It is certainly not in this budget, but we are watching what's going on with the Middle East and we know that if we move to stage three, we will be looking at further changes.
HOST: Okay, so you're saying there could still be change to the Remote Area Allowance, but not in this budget. So, this is off budget?
MINISTER: What I would say to your listeners, and especially those with the Aboriginal organisations wanting to know, could this occur? It is still a very live issue and I'm still pushing that.
HOST: So, I know you welcomed the idea of this, but it hasn't changed in 25 years. Why couldn't it be in this budget?
MINISTER: We've had to look at a number of issues for this budget. The Remote Area Allowance didn't come into this budget, but I am saying to your listeners that we're not leaving it behind. It is certainly an ongoing conversation.
HOST: One person just asked, 'Can you ask the Minister, what does the budget mean for remote housing?' I assume the remote housing, the national agreement on remote housing just continues as is, what, $4 billion over 10 years. So, there's no change to that?
MINISTER: That's correct. It keeps going. We obviously want to see the 2,700 homes built across the Northern Territory in the remote regions. We need to see that to halve the overcrowding.
HOST: It's five away from eight. We're speaking to the Minister for Indigenous Australians, also the NT Senator for the Labor party, Malarndirri McCarthy. Can I just turn to something which is related to this, but we've been speaking a lot about, this morning in the NT News, they are saying the NTG will amend the Aboriginal Child Placement Principle and introduce a new universal principle centred on safety as it undertakes a major reform to child protection. The report says the government will create a new hierarchy of considerations for any decision involving the removal of children deemed at risk, regardless of their race, religion or ethnicity. What's your response to those reported changes?
MINISTER: Well, I've certainly met with the Northern Territory Children's Commissioner, certainly met with the National Children's Commissioner in terms of First Nations. And I understand -
HOST: Have you met with the Minister, Robyn Cahill? Have you met with Robyn Cahill?
MINISTER: I actually saw Robyn Cahill at the vigil and I've certainly heard her comments. I've asked for a briefing from her and her department, which I hope to receive once I return to Darwin. So, it is important to me to see that not just Minister Robyn Cahill, but the Northern Territory Government is working with First Nations organisations, because if you don't work with First Nations organisations, it makes it very difficult. We see at the Joint Council of Coalition of Peaks and myself that you've got to work with First Nations families in order to see these changes.
HOST: What do you think, she's outlined in these news reports in the NT News, what the principles will be? They're changing the Aboriginal Child Placement Principle. What do you think that will mean?
MINISTER: Well, I need to see the details of that, but I would certainly urge Minister Cahill to be speaking with the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander sector.
HOST: Well, they're saying that a child's safety will be paramount regardless of whether their race, religion or ethnicity. It seems like they're changing what has been a principle for a while to one of purely of doing the best in terms of the safety of the child. Do you agree with that?
MINISTER: Well, what that says is that you think that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people don't know how to look after their children.
HOST: That's not what I think, it's what the Minister's saying.
MINISTER: Yeah, apologies, Stewart, not you. But certainly what that comment implies is that Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families don't know how to look after their families, and that is not the case. And I would urge the Minister to ensure she is speaking with them.
HOST: She is saying that she wants to make sure that kids are safe and that she feels as though the principle hasn't always led to kids safety. And can I just say what Marion Scrymgour said last week? She said, 'sometimes internally in the department there is too much conjecture and discussion about the Stolen Generation and I think that needs to stop.' So, are you on the same page as Marion Scrymgour in her assessment there?
MINISTER: Oh, look, I'm certainly supportive with Marion. We work very well together. Marion and I both want to see all children safe wherever they are. But we also know that you can't do that by excluding Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander families in that conversation.
HOST: Let's move on to something, and of course, this whole debate about Kumanjayi Little Baby's death has swirled around a number of issues, including child protection. But also in The Australian in recent days they've been focusing on Tangentyere Council and their budget. Now, The Australian said Tang is receiving $27 million in recurring government grants in financial year 2025. What is the figure? How much Commonwealth money does Tangentyere Council receive?
MINISTER: Well, firstly, can I just say to your listeners again that it was important, the work that Tangentyere did throughout that week, in particular in assisting with the volunteers and assisting police. And I do think at the appropriate time, Tangentyere will hopefully make their own comments in regards to a lot of these media conversations. What I can say -
HOST: It's a legitimate question. It's a legitimate question Minister. Can you tell me how much funding, Commonwealth funding?
MINISTER: What I can say, Stew, if you just let me finish, is that Tangentyere is expected to receive approximately $13.5 million in grant funding from the NIAA for the 2025-26 financial year.
HOST: Okay, so $13.5 million. Are you happy with how that's been spent in the past?
MINISTER: Well, can I tell you what it's for?
HOST: Absolutely.
MINISTER: It's building skills for job seekers in town camps through the Remote Australia Employment Service. It's also delivering the Remote Jobs and Economic Development program. It goes towards the Family and Domestic Violence program, including the Men's Behaviour Change program. It's also for the early childhood support playgroups and after school care, the child and youth outreach services and the community safety and night patrols and the Junior Rangers programs for young people in the town camps.
HOST: Quick, final question. When was the last time you spoke to the CEO of Tangentyere face to face or had a conversation with them?
MINISTER: Yes, look, I met with Walter Shaw, who joined me and Steve Edgington and a number of Aboriginal organisations two weeks ago on the Friday, and it was a really important meeting and I thank Tangentyere and the organisations.
HOST: Got to leave it there, Minister, but thank you.
