Prime Minister, welcome to 7.30.
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good evening. Good to be with you, Sarah.
FERGUSON: The situation in the Strait of Hormuz is volatile, as well as in the Gulf, and thinking about the last time a deal was done with the Iranians over their over their nuclear program, it took a very long time. So, speaking frankly, how bad could the consequences get for Australians?
PRIME MINISTER: What we want, Sarah is for a resolution to this conflict. That is why we have warned, though, of the consequences. No country is immune from the impact of this conflict, even though it's happening on the other side of the world, it's having a massive impact on the global economy. It's having a human impact on people in the region, and that's why we want to see a resolution. And that's why on Friday night, I participated, along with 49 other leaders, in a conference to promote the idea of de-escalation, to promote the opening up of the Strait of Hormuz, the return to normal economic activity. That there are no tolls, no privatisation, that there's freedom of movement, because that's essential for the way our global economy operates.
FERGUSON: What contingencies have been put in place to send assets to some sort of coalition that would secure the Strait, not the decisions, but what contingencies have been put in place to send Australian assets?
PRIME MINISTER: We don't go through all of those contingencies. There'll be another meeting in London held in the end of the week. Australia will participate in that. It's not clear whether that will be in person by a representative or if not, a virtual meeting, but Australia will play a constructive role, as we always do in international affairs.
FERGUSON: On Donald Trump, you won't answer the question that's been put to you numerous times now about why he keeps criticising Australia on its response to his war. Do you at least understand why people in Australia are so anxious about this?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's a question for President Trump. I have a respectful relationship with the US President, as is expected of me as Australia's Prime Minister. They're an important ally. In the discussions I've had with him, they've always been very constructive.
FERGUSON: Is our most important ally lying about the fact that Australia was asked to do something and failed to do it?
PRIME MINISTER: President Trump, of course, has made comments. And one of one of the comments that I made very early on in the Trump Presidency was I wouldn't give an ongoing running commentary on things that are truly obsessed over by journalists, but not necessarily by the public, and -
FERGUSON: If I may jump in there, Prime Minister, I'll just say this - this is our indispensable ally as your own Defence Strategy just made clear only a couple of days' ago. He's lashing out of Australia, and we don't know why. That's not a journalist's obsession.
PRIME MINISTER: To be clear, Sarah, I've seen the footage, in response to a question which invited the sort of statement that was made by the President. What I can say is that the relationship that I have with President Trump is constructive. People have seen that. We've had a number of face-to-face meetings as well as a number of discussions, and they've all been in the interests of both Australia and the United States. They've been friendly, they've been constructive, they've been important, and I'll continue to do that.
FERGUSON: Now, Katy Gallagher said this morning, the Finance Minister, that the Budget, the forthcoming Budget, will protect businesses and households from impacts of the war, but at the same time, the IMF is warning very strongly against stimulus measures during a period of rising inflation, and also against any more handouts. So, how will you protect people in this Budget without resorting to methods that fuel inflation?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's why you've got to get the balance right, and that's why our Expenditure Review Committee is working so hard to ensure that occurs. So, a range of the measures that we've taken, for example, to protect households, is about increasing supply. That's the engagement that I've had with our neighbours. The 250,000 tonnes of fertiliser we're receiving from Indonesia go to help our farmers. The work that we've done in cutting the fuel excise has made a positive difference by reducing the price of petrol and diesel by 32 cents per litre. We'll continue to make sure, as Labor Governments always will, to be concerned about cost of living, to particularly provide protection for the most vulnerable, while keeping the economy strong. And it is a matter of ensuring that we do get that balance right, and I'm sure that we will when we hand down the Budget in just a few weeks' time.
HOST: It is sometimes said that a crisis presents opportunities to think and do things differently. Does this crisis mean that you can think more radically about how to protect the Australian economy?
PRIME MINISTER: It certainly presents a challenge, Sarah, there's no question about that. But we've been considering for a period of time issues like intergenerational equity as well, how we give people that stake in the economy. And you'll see in the Budget, our thinking put into practice. And we're looking at practical measures though, obviously, the context has meant that we will finalise the Budget later than is normal.
FERGUSON: Does it also mean that you've had to give up on some of those measures? This was initially framed as a budget about intergenerational equity, that being the lodestar of it, if you like. Now we're in the middle of a crisis that could be a worsening or a lengthening crisis. Does that mean you've had to drop some of the measures that you wanted to bring to this Budget?
PRIME MINISTER: A theme of the Budget will be resilience, whether that be resilience of the economy or resilience in the context of giving people a stake in that economy. Certainly, the challenge before us at the moment, has changed since February, since this conflict broke out. And that has had, of course, an impact. And of course, that is one of the considerations that we are giving in the Expenditure Review Committee that's continuing to meet.
FERGUSON: We're hearing Opposition calls for more drilling to secure Australian fuel security into the future. More drilling, more refinery. Is more refining capacity something that you are discussing now amongst yourselves?
PRIME MINISTER: We're discussing the whole range of opportunities that are there to make fuel security stronger and -
FERGUSON: Does that include changing now, reversing course, if you like, on a long series of closures under both governments of refining capacity in Australia?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, let's be very clear, Sarah, there were six refineries when we left office in 2013. When we returned to office in 2022 there were just two -
FERGUSON: Well, let's be very clear about that, because the decision on two of those refineries was made under the Labor Government. It happened under the Liberal Coalition Government but was made under Labor.
PRIME MINISTER: No, there wasn't a Labor Government decision. They were private sector decisions in which the incoming government did nothing to intervene. And then it kept going, and then they made the extraordinary decision to put our fuel reserves in Texas. Now, had we been in that situation, when this global crisis occurred, we would have been much more vulnerable as it was. What we did was bring that reserve back to Australia. We also had the strongest reserves in 15 years. So, we will look at the full range of opportunities which are there. We're very open to pursuing those. We're engaging with the private sector in particular, and we'll engage, of course, with state and territory colleagues as well.
FERGUSON: Just a quick question on the NDIS, because the treasurer Jim Chalmers has made it clear that that's going to be the most important measure in terms of savings to carry out some budget repair. How difficult are the states making it for you to carry out that budget repair on the NDIS?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, they have a stake as well. The states agreed, as part of the Health Funding Agreements, that they would contribute up to 8 per cent of the growth. So, they have a stake in making sure that this system is sustainable. But more importantly than that, I think right around the National Cabinet table, there is agreement about how important the NDIS is. I'm very proud that it is a great Labor reform, but we need to make sure that it is sustainable into the future. Now, we've already halved the growth, which is there, and that's important, Sarah. We're not talking about cuts here. We're talking about - we've already halved the growth. Clearly, there is more work to be done, because I want to see an Australia where every Australian is proud of the NDIS. Where people who need that support are receiving it to fully participate in society, and that is why the NDIS was created, and that is why it is supported overwhelmingly by Australians. But if Australians can see waste and some of the manipulation that's occurred of the system, then it won't have that uniform support that is so important, so that people get that support who need it.
FERGUSON: And just to finish, just going back to the last conversation that we had on 7.30, you said then that you supported the US contention that they had achieved regime change in Iran. But the new figures in the Iranian regime appear to be more hard line than the previous ones. The IRGC, the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, is more powerful even than before. Do you still endorse the US claim that regime change has been achieved?
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that is a fact, that they have made that statement, and there are different people in charge by definition. Ayatollah Khamenei was removed in the most brutal way possible. And the United States undertook this action. They have themselves, said that the aims and objectives have been achieved. What we want to see is a de-escalation. We've consistently called for that. We want the talks to resume, and we hope that they do. And that is something that the whole world is looking towards. Because they want to see an end to the conflict. They want to see peace in the region, but importantly, as well, they also want to see the economic impact be diminished. This will have a long tail, Sarah, this impact. And I'll be convening National Cabinet again in coming days, not to make any change to the levels we're on, but to once again, talk with state and territory colleagues about where we're at and to have that dialogue that's so important that we all work together as one nation.
FERGUSON: Prime Minister, thank you very much indeed for joining us.
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Sarah.
